Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
I'm sure some definitions of rape include that kind of thing, but not the one from Britannica that Luciom quoted.
That's because he deliberately left this out.
In 2012 the U.S. Department of Justice adopted a new definition of rape, to be used in the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting program, that better reflected state criminal codes and the experiences of rape victims. By that definition, rape is “the penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”
https://www.britannica.com/topic/rape-cr...
Here's what dictionary.com has to say
noun
unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the person subjected to such penetration. sexual assault.
any sexual activity, with or without penetration, that takes place without the consent of one of the people involved.
statutory rape ( def ).
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation:
the rape of the countryside.
Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force:
The rape of the Sabine women is the subject of several classical sculptures and paintings that depict Roman soldiers kidnapping unwilling brides.
Glad we updated that as a society
yes so in the USA, very recently, it's rape.
Which means it isn't for a lot of other people and it isn't in a lot of other jurisdictions
Well it’s sexual assault in other countries
yes so in the USA, very recently, it's rape.
Which means it isn't for a lot of other people and it isn't in a lot of other jurisdictions
OK, moving forward you're just going to have to accept that your personal definition of rape is different from most everyone else's. I'm glad we've settled this.
Again, my main point was that the UN report specifies that rape was committed by Hamas, but not by the IDF. We don't even know what exactly is meant by the vague language used to refer to what the IDF did.
Whatever happened there may or may not fit into the modern definition of rape. But the UN report seems to have specifically avoided using that word, so whoever wrote it clearly found no evidence to suggest that the IDF committed rape (according to whatever definition they used).
So it is perfectly legitimate to claim, based on the report, that Hamas members raped civilian women. And it is not legitimate to claim, based on that report, that the IDF raped anyone.
What's wrong about "negotiating" (accepting IDFs ultimatum) is that it guarantees a favorable setting for IDF to invade again. Palestine wants to live freely without fear of being invaded, as they deserve.
It is becoming increasingly difficult to say that "IDF is winning". It was wrong earlier this year, but a far more defensible stance. IDF had several advantanges and instead of asking for peace they chose to increase the frequency of attacks, and they got very little out of it. Now that their advantages are dwindling it makes no sense for Hamas to stop the war since they believe stopping the war only serves to help Netanyahu set up another invasion with more favorable circumstances for IDF.
Hamas did negotiate when they were ahead, IDF refused to negotiate and instead gave an ultimatum as if IDF were winning and not losing. So no, "If they had negotiated while they were ahead the deal would be alot brighter" is an objectively false statement.
This is entirely IDFs fault because they invaded. If they want to end the invasion they can do so at any time. Hamas does not have that luxury. We do know what IDF was willing to negotiate, because it was tried and IDF showed they were not actually willing to negotiate, they were only willing to give ultimatums.
1) Hamas invaded Israel with 4000+ guys under the cover of over 10k missiles and mortars
2) There is no #2
That's the order of who invaded who. The end.
What's wrong about "negotiating" (accepting IDFs ultimatum) is that it guarantees a favorable setting for IDF to invade again. Palestine wants to live freely without fear of being invaded, as they deserve.
It is becoming increasingly difficult to say that "IDF is winning". It was wrong earlier this year, but a far more defensible stance. IDF had several advantanges and instead of asking for peace they chose to increase the frequency of attacks, and they got very little out of it. Now that their a
This whole post is utterly absurd.
1) Hamas invaded Israel with 4000+ guys under the cover of over 10k missiles and mortars
2) There is no #2
That's the order of who invaded who. The end.
Britain was protecting Palestine. People conducted guerilla warfare operations, and defeated the British that were protecting the Palestinians. Then the people claimed a new state (Israel) on the Palestinians land.
Then the Israeli people forcefully moved 100k Palestinians out of their land
After decades of torture and murder, which resulted in more than 20k Palestinians killed and 100k displaced, Hamas invaded Israel with 4000 guys under the cover of missiles and mortars.
More evidence of the policy of starvation by the most moral army in the world. Israel routinely refuses to grant permits to deliver aid.
Britain was protecting Palestine. People conducted guerilla warfare operations, and defeated the British that were protecting the Palestinians. Then the people claimed a new state (Israel) on the Palestinians land.
Then the Israeli people forcefully moved 100k Palestinians out of their land
After decades of torture and murder, which resulted in more than 20k Palestinians killed and 100k displaced, Hamas invaded Israel with 4000 guys under the cover of missiles and mortars.
https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/conflict-P...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1) Hamas invaded Israel with 4000+ guys under the cover of over 10k missiles and mortars
2) There is no #2
That's the order of who invaded who. The end.
I’m going to report this post for racism and lying. Israel invaded three times before Oct 7 and they killed thousands of civilians. You knew that right?
Here is accurate information. Question is, were you lying or were you ignorant? And will you lie in the future now that you know the truth?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza–Isr...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OK, moving forward you're just going to have to accept that your personal definition of rape is different from most everyone else's. I'm glad we've settled this.
It isn't in the totality of the world, it might be in the USA.
That's why britannica , not under rape-crime but in rape, meaning (in their dictionary) uses my definition.
And even in the rape-crime you quoted, there is a very clear under THIS definition, which means there are others, that isn't dominant, unique, nor "the most common" at all.
You, as usual, rabidly claim falsehoods because you want to be able to claim the IDF raped a lot of people, in order to draw a false equivalence with the mass rape of civilian women by hamas.
Do you agree there is absolutely no element to claim the IDF mass raped palestinian women? yes or no easy question.
If the only evidence and the only claims are about sexual violence against detained terrorists, do you agree that's not what pro palestine people are claiming on social media?
I encourage you to report the post PW.
Oct 7th was an act of war and an invasion. If you are unable to accept that and require mod intervention over it, do you.
Israel invaded Gaza in every meaningful way of the word "invade."
And they were justified in doing so to remove Hamas.
Where Israel has been ****ing up is Bibi's refusal to treat Gazan civilians as humans. Yes, there would have been collateral damage and untold amount of human suffering regardless but Bibi acts like he wants to maximize the suffering.
I encourage you to report the post PW.
Oct 7th was an act of war and an invasion. If you are unable to accept that and require mod intervention over it, do you.
You said Hamas/palestine/gaza invaded first. This is a lie.
Please own up to your lie.
IDF people invaded in the 40s, in 2008 and in 2014 , each time killing thousands of Palestinians.
Yeah...
It is becoming increasingly difficult to say that "Russia is winning". It was wrong earlier this year, but a far more defensible stance. Russia had several advantanges and instead of asking for peace they chose to increase the frequency of attacks, and they got very little out of it. Now that their advantages are dwindling it makes no sense for Ukraine to stop the war since they believe stopping the war only serves to help Putin set up another invasion with more favorable circumstances for Russi
I don't care what the actual definition is or isn't; if you stick a plunger in someone's arse, that's rape.
I don't care what the actual definition is or isn't; if you stick a plunger in someone's arse, that's rape.
question is, is that what people think? what will people imply if you write that IDF and Hamas both conducted mass raping? are you 100% sure they won't think both groups mass raped innocent women? Especially when everyone knows (and the UN confirmed repeatedly) Hamas mass raped innocent civilian women?
More evidence of the policy of starvation by the most moral army in the world. Israel routinely refuses to grant permits to deliver aid.
Refusing permits to reduce Hamas chances to steal isn't mass starvation. It's proper to consider UNRWA part of Hamas btw
