Daniel Negreanu's very own containment thread. All things Danny go here

I think it'd be funny if Mike Matusow wins a bracelet before Daniel. Not for or against Daniel, just want to see his reaction.

^
Matusow had a 2nd place finish last year.
I doubt he'll come that close again for a long time.
Eleven years since Matusow's last WSOP Bracelet.
Sixteen years and counting since Daniel last won a WSOP Bracelet in Las Vegas.

Imagine Chainsaw winning a bracelet before Daniel!

Somehow this is meaner than talking about his wife’s appearance

How long since Negreanu won a bracelet? A: Daniel won two in 2013. Ivey's streak was at 10 years before his deuce to seven win this week.

Tournament wins outside of the WSOP in Las Vegas are very commendable achievements, but wins at the WSOPE, WSOP Pacific and WSOP APAC are not real bracelets, just like wins at EPT, APT, NAPT, Triton, etc are not.

Ivey has won 5 bracelets in Vegas since Negreanu last won one. Ivey also won one of those “bracelets” in Australia just like Daniel did. Just another tournament win. The WSOP APAC was a forgettable expansion of the brand.

Look at Daniel’s real bracelets, all $2,000 buy-ins, even Jen Harman has won two bracelets with $5,000 buy-ins (Matusow three, and one at $3,500).

Daniel is a good player, great ambassador and very lucky to have been gifted decades of buy-ins.

No disagreement from me on your last comment. But a bracelet has always been whatever the World Series of Poker has wanted it to be. Bracelets have been given by a vote of the players. They've been given to winners of two table events. They've been given in Europe, given in Asia, and given in the Bahamas. They've been given for online wins. So while I also agree with you that winning the Main Event in the Asia-Pacific Series clearly is not on par with winning it in the Las Vegas series, it's arbitrary to decide that bracelet wins in Las Vegas should be singled out for Negreanu. It's a form of motivated reasoning: when someone wants to put down Daniel's performance in bracelet events over the past x number of years, conveniently leaving out bracelet wins in Europe, or Asia, or the Bahamas, or online bolsters the point.

But it's still arbitrary. And I don't recall anyone in this Forum making the point that Phil Ivey was no longer an elite player because he hadn't won a WSOP bracelet in over a decade (not saying Negreanu is still an elite player, just that judging the current status of his tournament game shouldn't be based on some arbitrary criterion and one that other players are not held to.)

Any WSOP Bracelet won outside of a live event in the great state of Nevada, is fake imo.

All these online WSOP Bracelets are repugnant.

'Motivated reasoning' is a cognitive and social response in which individuals, consciously or sub-consciously, allow emotion-loaded motivational biases to affect how new information is perceived. Individuals tend to favor evidence that coincides with their current beliefs and reject new information that contradicts them, despite contrary evidence. Motivated reasoning overlaps with confirmation bias. Both favor evidence supporting one's beliefs, at the same time dismissing contradictory evidence.

If DNegs would focus on larger-field lower buy-in events he'd be putting up much better results. He has a massive exploitative experience edge over those fields. But his ego pushes him to play in high buy-in stacked fields of absolute crushers who have an edge over him instead.

And while I don't think he's the nut low at PLO, him constantly telling us how great he is at PLO is laughable at best from what I've seen.

Dnegs is a phenomenal ambassador of the game…

While I agree that you shouldn’t judge a player by 1 hand. I’ve seen enough of his plo game and even making mistakes in NL to say he’s misapplying game theory and just isn’t some crusher.

In a recent vlog he check raised A rag on A96 against 2 opponents and got dumped on and called it off in an online setting.

Then there’s the folds getting insane prices. Which he creates these insane prices by not just jamming turn and leaving crumbs behind.

Jams J3 sooted and runs into an overpair in one vlog.

Then in PLO he got it in twice in the past couple vlogs w JJxx against AA and sucked out on 1. JJ in plo is one of the worst hands to go w preflop unless you have some sort of run down.

Like one play in isolation isn’t bad but when you keep doing dumb stuff against fields where you have an “edge” it just doesn’t make sense.

Poker players love to justify bad play bc lol soft fields.

But I think this makes him endearing in a way bc he’s kinda just a regular donk so it’s relatable.

I don't know anything about fashion. So.. those 'Cashmere' pants, those are sweatpants, right? They look like sweatpants

USA, USA, USA!

An open shove with J3s is fine if you are really short stacked.

That JJTT hand posted earlier, it seems OK to raise with it on the button and call a 3-bet. However, you usually have to fold if you don't flop a set or straight.

He is an OK player. It is just he has the GG money for buyins and needs to act like a superstar for his contract. If he was mostly playing $1-3K tournaments, it would be harder to market him.

He was all in pre for 9bb w JJT8ss and 7.5bb w JJ84ss lol relax both are perfectly fine and it's +EV almost no matter what action happened pre.

Yes I dug through the vlogs and matched stacks w blinds and looked up the ranges for the stacks. Maybe you should do the same before shitting on someone

Part of the issue is he doesn’t really give complete hand histories on every hand.

I also just assume it’s a punt when he doesn’t give more info.

I noticed you didn’t mention the Ax c/r call it off Line

How many tournaments has DN played? How many has Ivey played?

Yea I know nothing about what is good or not in hold'em and I don't have resources to look it up so won't comment on that.
edit: I also think he's a sub-par PLO player fwiw, just wanted to argue about those two hands because it's the internet. I think the recent PLO PGT series showed just how badly the good plo regs crush non-specialists in the game, and I obv include DNegs in non-specialist bracket. But JJ hands were fine.

The a7qq fold getting almost 20-1 is one of the worst folds I've ever seen.

He almost has the exact odds needed if he's up against A3 to hit a queen and if he's so worried about AA wtf is he raising the flop for.

His opponent easily could have a wheel (most likely with a flush draw) - what's he gonna do check back for the last 30k ish with 600k in the pot?

Obviously sometimes you are dead to AA and then it's gg but a wheel is way more likely.

I didn't compare the two over recent tourney results. I mentioned that while Negreanu has gone 10 years and counting without winning a bracelet, and is criticized in this thread for it, Ivey went the same period of time without winning a bracelet and went unmentioned here. The ragging on Daniel was over the time frame, not the total number of tournaments he played since last winning a bracelet, and the geolocation he last won bracelets.

Bc Ivey didn't even play half those years and doesn't play that many events.

If DN played a couple of events a year and missed some years completely nobody would say anything about the lack of bracelets.

Bracelets at the end of the day are a marketing gimmick but you'd think by accident considering how many events he plays (and that a lot of them are small field) he would have won a bracelet in this time.

Don't really like dnegs personality but the attacks on his play using results are kinda weird. It's live LOLDONKAMENTS nothing is really statistically significant. If anyone had all their hands analyzed constantly they'd look like geniuses or idiots depending on which data you cherry-pick. If I had 8figure ambassador deal my poker would go to **** and I think it’s kinda surprising that he still seems to focus on trying to being competitive (whether it’s working or not) in that situation.

But the number of tourneys played is why people rag on Negreanu and unmentioned Ivey. It's baked into the years involved. So sure, people probably should say stuff like "Wow, Negreanu has gone 642 tourneys without a bracelet" and "Oh cool, Ivey just won his first bracelet in 72 events." It's just easier to say years and knowledgable people know what you're getting at.

If that were true, then there then the qualifier wouldn't be dragged out restricting consideration of bracelets won to live and in Las Vegas.