Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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The problem is that IDF soldiers acting unprofessionally is a recurring theme and Hamas's main success so far has been in painting IDF as unprofessional and genocidal. Ukraine has very few instances of such behavior despite the conflict being far larger, and Ukraine being forced into mobilizing civilians. IDF is supposed to be a professional military.
Has there even been a war where you couldn't say this?
The Ummah (greater Muslim community) and Western far left are predisposed to be highly critical of Israel. I dont think this is really moving the needle much.
Also, you must not get exposed to a lot of pro Russian propaganda. I do, and I can say there are daily propaganda claims, with plenty of (probably edited) video evidence of Ukranian soldiers doing much worse than this.
I think the point is war is horrible; and on the scale of how bad things are, this seems pretty benign.
Isn't the hamas/fatah meeting in China supposed to be before the end if the month
Israel at minimum needs to continue to destroy the tunnel network
They aren't going to just leave
They can continue to occupy for the next several years if you think that's better than being on offense
But leaving now would be immoral
It's not going to happen
This isn't going to happen. Israel is not capable of destroying the tunnel network, they will eventually have to "just leave". They aren't really occupying now to "continue occupying" because Israel is afraid of the casualties that will inevitably occur from occupation. This also makes destroying tunnel networks completely impossible.
Victor you are impressive with how you use language as propoganda
I mean that sincerely. It's a legit skill
A lot of it is fairly common tankie rhetoric.
Yes, absolutely. Even if there wasn't a war where you couldn't say this, that doesn't mean that IDF isn't failing horribly at this war; they are.
The Ummah (greater Muslim community) and Western far left are predisposed to be highly critical of Israel. I dont think this is really moving the needle much.
Also, you must not get exposed to a lot of pro Russian propaganda. I do, and I can say there are daily propaganda claims, with plenty of (probably edited) video evidence of Ukranian soldiers doing much worse than this.
I think the point is war is horrible; and on the scale of how bad things are, this seems pretty benign.
I probably see the most Russian propaganda of anyone here. As you say, it is mostly edited and transparently propaganda. Ukraine knows that they are always under a microscope by bad faith propagandists (see our very own 2p2 thread), as well as constantly bombarded by Russian propaganda, and so Ukraine acts MORE professionally because of this, for example by not tieing POWs onto the hood of a car. Israel would do well to learn from this.
In the West Bank are Palestinians ambushing military convoys? I haven't heard there is anything like that going on to the point there would even be a need. And this isn't even addressing that I dont think a wounded militant tied to the hood of a truck would be a deterrent anyways.
It is also possible the seats of the trucks were all full and that was the most expedient way to transport the wounded militant.
I am pretty sure if militants had the capacity to take out an entire convoy truck, lo
there have been rocket and IED attacks on military vehicles in the West Bank recently. and yes, it would be a deterrent. Resistance fighters are not going to blow up a Palestinian civilian cmon.
The problem is that IDF soldiers acting unprofessionally is a recurring theme and Hamas's main success so far has been in painting IDF as unprofessional and genocidal. Ukraine has very few instances of such behavior despite the conflict being far larger, and Ukraine being forced into mobilizing civilians. IDF is supposed to be a professional military.
How can you apologize for the IDF like this?
They are a professional army. Saying stuff like they are supposed to be means they aren’t a professional army, even tho they are supposed to be
And if they aren’t a professional army, then the rules are less stringent for them! Joy
The new rules are you can’t be telling lies and you can’t attack people
What’s a tankie argument mean?
If oct 7 didn't happen a new election would have occurred already and bibi probably would have lost
Hamas are responsible for Netanyahu and Gazans are responsible for Hamas. Therefore Gazans opted for death by IDF. QED
Isn't the world a much simpler place than people always make it out to be?
Let me tell you a true story
I have a reputation for writing up students who cut class
Earlier this year the two girls, good students, asked me if they could miss a few classes to practice a dance for a school performance
I told them they can come to class for 15 minutes each day while i teach the lesson and then do the work on their own time. They agreed
The next class, they did not show up. I knew they were in school and practicing
Do you think i wrote them up? I did
The teacher who they were with came to see me
"You know they were with me! Why would you write them up? They are good students?"
I replied, "if i only write up bad students when they cut, and not good students, so my writeups actually mean anything? "
Pointless
The UN writeups on Israel mean nothing because they don't write up many countries who do worse. So their writeups are meaningless
Can someone translate PW for me?
There are no pows because it wasn't a war yet. There are hostages
Most that are alive are likely in civilian homes
So yes it is difficult
one of the people released in Nov claimed their group stayed in tunnels and actually met Sinwar at some point. so no one really knows where the remaining hostages are.
regardless, I think language should be applied evenly. what do you call the people in the Sde Teiman camp? what do you call the people detained in the West Bank and confined for years without charges? what do you call the people detained in the West Bank for the explicit purposed of compelling a different family member to surrender? what do you call Hamas and Resistance members who were detained pre-Oct 7?
well a lot of people call them terrorists. the media calls the prisoners or detainees. but you can see how this language confers blame on them and removes blame from Israel.
when Hamas detains a person, they become a hostage regardless of their actions. but Israel can detain 10s of thousands and all blame is put on the detainee.
right. so that means its much more accurate than Western propaganda.
Let me tell you a true story
I have a reputation for writing up students who cut class
Earlier this year the two girls, good students, asked me if they could miss a few classes to practice a dance for a school performance
I told them they can come to class for 15 minutes each day while i teach the lesson and then do the work on their own time. They agreed
The next class, they did not show up. I knew they were in school and practicing
Do you think i wrote them up? I did
The teacher who they were wit
Why did you assume the girls weren’t coming for the last 15 minutes of class?
So Israel can’t be criticized by the U.N. because the U.N. isn’t operating fairly?
Yes vic language is powerful
I personally call most of them prisoners. If you disagree feel free to correct me each time
I don't know if the rules allow people to say things like this, or it could descend into people calling other people Nazis again. And we really wouldn't want that, would we?
its just a way to attempt to delegitimize an argument without actually addressing. at this point tankie just means anything outside of mainstream Western propaganda.
cliffs on the dog rape theories?
Tankie is very specific. No, it is not just "anything outside of mainstream Western propaganda."
Why did you assume the girls weren’t coming for the last 15 minutes of class?
So Israel can’t be criticized by the U.N. because the U.N. isn’t operating fairly?
My direction was to come during the 1st 15 minutes. They knew that
Israel can be criticized but should not be sanctioned if the un is ignoring the same atrocities committed by neighboring countries because it becomes apparent that the only reason these criticisms are being brought to light are because of bias
its just a way to attempt to delegitimize an argument without actually addressing. at this point tankie just means anything outside of mainstream Western propaganda.
What’s that mean?
Tankie is very specific. No, it is not just "anything outside of mainstream Western propaganda."
What’s it mean?
My direction was to come during the 1st 15 minutes. They knew that
Israel can be criticized but should not be sanctioned if the un is ignoring the same atrocities committed by neighboring countries because it becomes apparent that the only reason these criticisms are being brought to light are because of bias
Sounds like you’re changing the story.
Anyway, so if I think or I can prove that an authority is biased against me then I can do as I please?
Can the U.N. be biased against Israel but also bring criticisms to light because they care about Palestinians?
Pw
Let me put this in an example that you should get
Is it okay for cops to only arrest black people for Marijuana and not white?
Do you think this happened? Was it right?
Do you know many got their sentences commuted. Do you agree with the commutations? Do you understand why they got commuted?
