2024 World Series of Poker May 28th to July 17th ***No Spoilers***
The 2024 WSOP will take place at Horseshoe Las Vegas and Paris Las Vegas from May 28 to July 17, 2024, with the Main Event running from July 3 to July 17. The Main Event – poker’s undisputed freezeout world championship – will have four starting days, beginning on Wednesday, July 3. Players may also register directly on Day 2.
That Kristen check/shove on the turn with KQo BB versus UTG on AKJx seems awful. UTG had AK, but she is crushed by any ace, AA/KK/JJ/QT/KJ. Sure, she could get some hands to fold, but UTG doesn't have that many weak aces, and isn't betting large on the turn that much for thin value or as a bluff.
Seeing so much chatter on how the KQ shove that AQ would obviously fold but did these people watch her play at ALL the last few days? She got a fair number of hero folds and they were all wrong.
Like AQ vs the population sure there won't be enough bluffs, but her? A player like her you gotta just click the call button and hope with decent enough hands sometimes.
Just because you don't know how Lena900 is doesn't make the table bad. Table would have been better with Foxen from the viewership standpoint, but I'm extremely excited to see Lena's masterclass in ICM that's about to happen on Tuesday.
Not disagreeing with you but this is exactly why this FT is so disappointing given the other possibilities (Foxen or even Xiang or Rast). No one — ok very very few people — gets excited for an ICM masterclass by a mostly unheard of online player (no dont tell me he’s well known—he is not). Krissy would have made it the most anticipated FT in recent memory.
I had been thinking of how many people would've posted if serock had Ax and folded or something like ten eight of hearts she's the greatest player ever
Tomato tomayo guy if he runs QQ into something and busts OMG what an idiot he could've just folded to the final table!
as I said before, it's just unique with the pressure and tiring of the event and the magnification of anything that goes wrong. Everyone thinks they all would've played perfectly though.
Bingo. The prevalence of Monday morning quarterbacking and luck de-factoring are almost pandemic-level problems on this forum; and that is true even for a poker forum (dare I say even for a gambling forum).
Tamayo today is $200,000.00 richer than he was yesterday. That's all that matters. Except, of course, to those self-centered espresso-drinkers sitting by their lavish pools and talking to a plastic object convinced they are making the world a better place by doing so and resting comfortably on their 8-figure bank accounts, soaking in the rays of the sun and basking in the glorified holy light of vain self-centeredness.
Seeing so much chatter on how the KQ shove that AQ would obviously fold but did these people watch her play at ALL the last few days? She got a fair number of hero folds and they were all wrong.
Like AQ vs the population sure there won't be enough bluffs, but her? A player like her you gotta just click the call button and hope with decent enough hands sometimes.
Yeah and I feel like she chose the wrong target to. It would have been way more effective against a player with a shorter stack than her who would have to decide for their tournament life. It would have been a big blow to Serock’s stack but one that he could have absorbed, so more likely to call.
Also didn’t we see a player open fold QQ in the exact same 10 players remaining spot just a couple years ago? I remember the same chatter about it.
Wow!!!! I did not realise how fkn huge mistake it was for Yamato to fold the QQ. Someone made a blog and solved it simplified.
"QQ is quite an easy raise. In fact it mixes shoving and raising. Even TT is a continue, it's only 99 onwards that start folding.
QQ makes $143,148 in equity as a shove, so it is worth 14 buy-ins. For context, AA makes $396,540 in equity as a shove. It's often a good idea to use AA as a baseline for judging how profitable an action is. KQo, for example, makes $3,097 as a raise, which does not seem like an action worth taking considering there is $10 million up top."
Just imagine how much equity Foxen’s punt lost? Even tho it was 13 left compared to 10 left, it must have been 6figure punt for sure. Its such a big hand people talk about a lot someone should solve it and show us how bad it was in equilibrium and how much it lost in equity.
Little different situation as it was after a flat and a three-bet. But Livingston ended up getting 3rd place.
Not disagreeing with you but this is exactly why this FT is so disappointing given the other possibilities (Foxen or even Xiang or Rast). No one — ok very very few people — gets excited for an ICM masterclass by a mostly unheard of online player (no dont tell me he’s well known—he is not). Krissy would have made it the most anticipated FT in recent memory.
Fair. Would have been better with Krissy for sure.
Do you think a sit n go style tournament could work at the WSOP.
It could be called the ICMless Tournament. I'd be curious to see how a tournament without ICM plays out.
Total Entrants would be limited to 1,000. If you win (3) 10 player sit n go's you are the champion. To eliminate ICM the payouts would be as follows:
Buy in: $5,000
Entrants: 1,000
Prize Pool: $5,000,000
Places 11-100 = $30,000
Places 2-10 = $100,000
Place 1 = $1,000,000
That’s the shootout event. Which is indeed an awesome structure and tournament and heavily underutilized imo. Just 1 of them all series is not enough.
I think they are hard to organize with timing so TDs don’t like them. But they are great for players.
How many times did Lena go to showdown yesterday?
Hendon Mob actually has a list for most cashes in the Main. Allen tied Johnny Chan's record of 11 this year. It just hasn't been updated yet.
Oh nice. Thanks!
John Esposito is simply not someone I would have thought to look up. He has five cashes in the era in which I'm compiling. Humberto Brenes also has five. Chris Bjorin had six spanning 2008-18.
I narrowed it to the post-boom era, as that's when the fields became massive. (Which probably means I should not include 2003, as the boom had yet to take full effect.) Is that fair? Probably not. Finishing 20th in a field of 200 players in the 1990s is arguably the equivalent of finishing 800th in a field of 8,000 in the 2010s, at least based on percentile. I still have no idea how the two eras scale, at least when it comes to the Main.
The stealth members from that list are Roland Israelashvili, Vitaly Lunkin and JohnnyBax, as all eight of their cashes came in this defined era. Lunkin's spans 2006 to 2023, with seven of the eight in the 12 years from 2006-17. Josephy has his eight spread more evenly from 2007-23, with six in the nine-year stretch of 2015-23. Israelashvili also has his ITMs spread out in the 2005-23, and has a pretty crazy record that I've never noticed: 261 career cashes in WSOPC events.
I can't believe I didn't think to look up JC Tran, who was sort of a local legend for my neck of the poker woods. All eight of his came in the post-boom era. Hell, I was sitting 20 feet away when he busted in 2009, plus he is one of a handful of locals (to me) to make the FT in the time I've been following this game.
Random question. Do the main event final table players get their payout in cash, chips, or check? Imagine flying home with a seven figure check in your bag. Lol.
Harrington said he got his 1995 prize issued as a check. But then again, that's an era when many people still walked around with a checkbook, at least if they were headed to a grocery or department store.
I can't remember how long ago it was, but on an old ESPN telecast of the Main, there was some guy who got his prize in cold hard cash. If memory serves, he was briefly featured as someone who had either just graduated from college or just dropped out, and had used pretty much every last dime he had to his name to buy into the tourney. You know, solid BRM. The camera caught up to him as he walked out with bundles of $100s in his hand.
But yeah, good question... I've never know the logistics of suddenly acquiring that amount of money. Wire limits (if there are any), fees, etc. Plus, once that money is in your possession, where it goes. It's not like you just stick $7.5 million in a checking account, after all.
Random question. Do the main event final table players get their payout in cash, chips, or check? Imagine flying home with a seven figure check in your bag. Lol.
They ask you how you want a payout. Any of the above are an option. I usually get a check if I don't need the cash/chips for other events/cash games - safer/easier to travel with.
Krissy is a stone cold killer, ya'll need to stop talking sht. I'd bet Serock double barrels almost 100% of his UTG on AKJ 5 vs her BB in that spot.
Problem was exactly that though, it's her BB vs UTG on UTG's board. In theory, Krissy shouldn't have many bluff jams. She found one and just ran into it. If Serock has AQ or worse and folds you all call her the best female poker player alive. Which she very well could be.
Instead of "people should stop talking ****", I think "people who clearly know nothing about theory should stop making claims about theory".
She has plenty of bluff jams in theory, almost all flush draws, especially the combo draw with Q of hearts. So adding on a made hand that could just call, but with far worse equity than a flush draw against the type of she ran into, is in theory, awful. Not just for ICM but for chipEV as well. You'll never find a piece of software that thinks its good.
And if we're going to talk "exploitative", it's even worse given she was against a tight player who probably isn't betting huge with TT on the turn like a solver would.
If we're not going to call that a hand a punt, we should just stop using the word punt, since it's true definition is apparently "when a player I don't like loses a big pot". You take any punt anyone's ever done and there's almost certainly some hypothetical situation where it might have worked and made them look like a genius - that's the nature of the game. But when someone is top 10 in chips on the verge of a final table and throws it away with a play that's awful in theory and awful in practice, let's call a spade a spade.
It was simply one of the biggest punts in World Series of Poker history. I challenge someone to name me 5 worse punts in the main event. Huge moment, historical context with her being on the final table bubble, and she choked in the biggest way possible.
If a man had made that play he'd be labeled the biggest choke artist in poker.
Very good table? A bunch of guys who don't say a single word, all gto nerds taking 30 sec per move. Not a single pro. No amateur. Let's not forget I haven't seen a single meaningful bluff from almost any of these guys yesterday. Nut low final table. Although they all seem like nice people and I'm happy for them.
What is someone if not a pro or an amateur?
But overall agree that table doesn’t do much for me one way or another
Highly annoying FT with zero pros and amateurs
Instead of "people should stop talking ****", I think "people who clearly know nothing about theory should stop making claims about theory".
She has plenty of bluff jams in theory, almost all flush draws, especially the combo draw with Q of hearts. So adding on a made hand that could just call, but with far worse equity than a flush draw against the type of she ran into, is in theory, awful. Not just for ICM but for chipEV as well. You'll never find a piece of software that thinks its good.
And
the problem with discussing what's a punt or what's not is it always boils down to one thing- did the bluff get called? Never have I seen someone make a huge bluff, especially deep in a big event, get it through and have people call it a punt.
That's not even to say it wasn't a punt- but the only reason people are calling it that is bc her opponent called.If he had aq/a10 and folded everyone would be talking aout what a beast she is.
It's just results oriented nonsense and not an honest discussion.
Oh nice. Thanks!
John Esposito is simply not someone I would have thought to look up. He has five cashes in the era in which I'm compiling. Humberto Brenes also has five. Chris Bjorin had six spanning 2008-18.
I narrowed it to the post-boom era, as that's when the fields became massive. (Which probably means I should not include 2003, as the boom had yet to take full effect.) Is that fair? Probably not. Finishing 20th in a field of 200 players in the 1990s is arguably the equivalent of finishing
I don't know if this was already discussed, but Aditya Agarwal, who just won event 82, $1000 NLHE, has 8 main event cashes between 2007 and 2019.
If we're not going to call that a hand a punt, we should just stop using the word punt, since it's true definition is apparently "when a player I don't like loses a big pot".
Interesting point, in an overall interesting post. Did the definition of "punt," as it pertains to poker, change over the years?
I've generally thought of it the way LPT does: overplaying a hand in an ill-advised spot – although to me, it has nothing to do with whether or not I like the player. The Foxen-Serock hand strikes me as a prime example, as noted. And yes, people counter with "if Serock had a weak ace, he would have folded there," but I also don't think Serock has a lot of weak aces in his range there. (Insert whatever other hand that would have folded, too.)
I guess if I had to think of others, there's the Cheong-Duhamel hand, although I've heard the case made that a) Cheong's bluff would have worked a high percentage of times and that b) Duhamel should get credit for a nice call with QQ.
Scotty Nguyen had a Steve O'Neal against Philip Hilm in the 2007 Main. He led the flop, got called, then check-shoved for something like 2x pot on the turn. Scotty had AQ, Hilm had 55 on a Q-5-6-K board.
Duhamel's play against Affleck earlier in that run is arguably a punt that the kicking team somehow managed to recover. Similarly, and I don't remember the specifics, but Cada had at least one punt with a low PP but happened to hit his two-outer.
EDIT:
Never have I seen someone make a huge bluff, especially deep in a big event, get it through and have people call it a punt.
100% agree, which is a point I forgot to make.
So... nine semipros?
the problem with discussing what's a punt or what's not is it always boils down to one thing- did the bluff get called? Never have I seen someone make a huge bluff, especially deep in a big event, get it through and have people call it a punt.
That's not even to say it wasn't a punt- but the only reason people are calling it that is bc her opponent called.If he had aq/a10 and folded everyone would be talking aout what a beast she is.
It's just results oriented nonsense and not an honest discussio
Its not just results oriented because there's bluffs that actually are good in theory given the ranges of the two players.
Sometimes someone makes a bluff that could be good in theory, and they just "run into it". That's not really what happened here. She "ran into it" because she is in a spot where she already has a ton of bluffs via the flush draw, but her opponent has a ton of hands that will snap her like AA, KK, JJ, QT, etc. And she already beat a lot of bluffs and could have just called.
At best, you're agreeing with me that we should just eliminate the word "punt" since it will always be results oriented to an extent.
Scotty Ngyuen got accused of punting in the 2007 Main Event and he got all-in with 38% equity. Foxen got in with 9%.
Lococo got accused of punting in the 2021 Main Event and he beat all the AK/AQ overcard combos and had blockers to the straight that was being repped against an aggro pro in Aldemir. Aldemir could have easily had AK that hand and Lococo would have been FT chipleader. Meanwhile, your'e telling me Foxen was trying to bluff AQ off the pot , which is a hand she's herself blocking. So Lococo's call made a lot more sense and if Foxen doesn't deserved to get called a punter, Lococo certainly didn't. Which leaves the question - then who does? Cause it sounds like the word shouldn't exist by your interpretation. And I'll reiterate, it seems to me the only remaining consistent definition of punt is "when a player I don't like loses a big pot".
People are sympathetic to Foxen so making excuses for her. If we think calling anything a punt is dumb because it's always results oriented to an extent, then fine, let's not discuss poker hands because its always results oriented.
If we decide we're going to discuss poker hands anyway, then when someone makes a bluff that the solver says is awful, that an average Joe watching says is awful, that makes absolutely no sense given the strength of her opponents range, given how many better bluff candidates with she has in flush draws that will incline her opponent to call, given how little equity she had when she was called, that's on the bubble of the biggest final table of the year with not just millions in dollars up top but massive potential for sponsorships and news coverage given the historical nature of a woman FTing the Main for the first time in the MoneyMaker era, when she had a very healthy medium stack with several short stacks waiting to bust, then, it's a massive punt.
If the word "punt" has any meaning whatsoever, then it's one of the biggest punts in World Series of Poker history, if not the biggest. Anyone arguing otherwise is clearly coming from a place of sympathy for Foxen and nothing else.
It was one of the biggest punts in poker history, and if she plays for a living and is such a "killer", to make such a massive error in a massive spot makes it one of the biggest chokes in poker history. She let the pressure get to her and choked hard and decided to give her chips away. You need some seriously Foxen-tinted glasses to see it any other way.
