LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

Who won more than 4 finals MVP's since Jordan?

It's tough and it's only getting tougher. Let us know when a player in this century has as many finals MVP's. Apparently they're hard to get. You might need to bump this post in the year 2072 or something.

I was discussing rings, not MVPs.

Would it have changed your POV if Curry had won 5 (which he was close to 90% achieving)? I don't think so.

Horry GOAT.

Hurry would be considered a gross over achiever, no?

Back to Curry, ~90% at one point to win 5 rings. Would that be a gross over achievement? Or would it reflect poorly on Lebron only winning 4 over 20 years?

Or would you need to sidetrack us with something irrelevant to the question?

Or would you need to find another metric which puts Lebron in a better light?

Curry was and still is amazing. But Durant joining a 73-9 team that had a 3-1 finals lead (after titling the year before) was unprecedented and isn't.comparable to any other team that's been constructed in modern times.

Ok, fair enough.

I'm not going to extend this any further, it seems acknowledging Lebron has underperformed in playoff/chp situations is verboten.

And maybe he hasn't underperformed. Maybe its variance, poor team construction, rigging, IDK.

I don't need any fancy metrics to show Lebron is easily the best player in the post Jordan era. He basically wins on any metric.

He has led the most teams to a championship of any player since Jordan.

Hard to imagine seeing that as something other than an achievement.

Maybe leading teams to a championship is just damn hard. Shaq and Duncan are in 2nd place for dominance in the post Jordan era by doing it 3 times.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse.

But who can forget this (which seemed somewhat believable at the time):

The idea that one super team is fundamentally different than another super team probably has a simple explanation.

This is not disputable:

Kobe won 5 rings;
Shaq won 4 rings;
Duncan won 5 rings.

I don't know where you are getting your #s.

I've got no problem with hating on Lebron for all that cringe. But that team still won 2 titles.

Durant joined a team that was already championship level and near GOAT team. The Heat was 3 guys who had never played before. It's not comparable. A superteam like Durant/Harden/Irving is more comparable.

Horry won 7 rings.
Pippen won 6 rings.
Rodman won 5 rings.

Cool story bro.

Why the spin? The discussion is about Lebron only winning 4 rings in 20 years, and you divert with Horry.

I gave you bona fide top players who achieved more than Lebron (or same in less time), but you bring something else into the conversation to distract from the question.

I already accepted the fact you won't answer it.

It's about leading teams to rings. Winning rings as a support player isn't relevant. You're the one spinning things by including players who got support rings only when it's convenient for you.

Nobody since Jordan has led as many championship teams as Lebron has, and that is undeniable and requires no spin at all.

And Jordan having more of specifically that, is the main reason he can be acceptably rated as being above Lebron.

So, Heat winning 2 titles was all well and good for NBA because...?

And GSW winning 2 titles was all bad and awful for NBA because...?

I disliked and rooted against both teams.

So individual metrics are necessary to measure someone's contributions to a team's success?

That is, Kobe playing GOAT level ball for 5 chps is irrelevant because he did not receive an award?

L O L

It's relevant but it's not the same. That was the Shaq era and everyone knew it.

And Kobe didn't really play GOAT level ball. Guys who are GOATs typically have more impressive MVP results in their careers.

Jordan. 5 MVPs, 3 runner ups
Lebron. 4 MVPs, 4 runner ups
Kobe. 1 MVP, 1 runner up

Lol.

So why was one team considered good for the game, and another bad for the game?

Find me another GOAT candidate who only finished top 2 in MVP voting twice lol.

Who said anything like that?

Well, Pippen won 6 rings as the 2nd best player on a team, and there's only about 4000 posts in this thread about how terrible he was.

Kobe 2000 averaged only 15.6 pts. In all the other chp series he averaged:
-24.6;
-26.8;
-32.4;
-28.6.

That looks GOAT level to me.

so we're comparing Pippen to Kobe/Shaq/Duncan instead of Horry now?