British Politics
Been on holiday for a few weeks, surprised to find no general discussion of British politics so though I'd kick one off.
Tory leadership contest is quickly turning into farce. Trump has backed Boris, which should be reason enough for anyone with half a brain to exclude him.
Of the other candidates Rory Stewart looks the best of the outsiders. Surprised to see Cleverly and Javid not further up the betting, but not sure the Tory membership are ready for a brown PM.
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/bri...
Regarding the LD leadership contest, Jo Swinson is miles ahead of any other candidate (and indeed any of the Tory lot). Should be a shoe in.
Finally, it's Groundhog Day in Labour - the more serious the anti-Semitism claims get, the more Corbyn's cronies write their own obituary by blaming it on outlandish conspiracy theories - this week, it's apparently the Jewish Embassy's fault...
I'm in favour of open borders around the world, for everyone. Let the fascists go to the home of modern white supremacy. Good luck with that.
Although it is sad to see Britain destroy itself in this fashion because it was such a great nation; at the end of the day if Britain's choose this path, then so be it. As an American I selfishly think we should encourage British people who haven't completely given up on Western civilization to emigrate here and continue participating in the Western liberal exceptionalism project.
Another potential positive of seeing this rapid self destruction in real time is that nations that are starting on t
No such thing is occurring. Your Twitter feed is essentially self-curated, which may account for your perception problem.
Erm... that's how extradition works. The requesting nation asks the requested nation to render someone who has broken the requesting nation's laws. The essential test is 'bi-criminality', meaning that the offence for which extradition is requested is also a crime of significant gravity (the usual rule being a prison sentence of at least one year on conviction) in the requested nation. The requested nation can claim an exemption for 'political offences' (the Russian poet Osip Mandelstam was sent
No extradition outside of truly exceptional cases requires that the person you are asking about had broken a law WHILE PHYSICALLY BEING IN YOUR COUNTRY, I know the USA used to try to ask for extradition for IP violations in huge cases but it was mostly rebuffed.
And we are talking the most powerful country in the history of the world, for cases where billions were on the line.
It is ABSOLUTELY not normal to ask for extradition of speech crimes. Germany has a well enforced law against holocaust denial but afaik they don't ask to criminalize it for people not living in Germany ffs.
Don't be naive or pretend to be, extradition normal use is for people who you think committed a crime in your country then left. Not about actions entirely concluded elsewhere, that is exceptionally rare and almost never agreed upon
You argued that if they attack people or property it should be an automatic death sentence.
You also argued that if people don't agree with the rules and values of their country they should leave or face deportation.
What do you think should happen to
a) the violent rioters who attacked people and property, and
b) non-violent people marching against immigration, and
c) people posting anti-immigrant sentiments on social media?
A) death penalty as already discussed plenty of times
B) absolutely nothing and if government does anything to them, death penalty to every single government employee/elected politician that touches a hair of those people (it works both ways). Nuremberg principle extended to every government action.
C) absolutely nothing it's incredible you ask
You've previously said that if people publicly disagree with government policy they should be deported.
No such thing is occurring. Your Twitter feed is essentially self-curated, which may account for your perception problem.
You deny there is a dramatically different treatment of protests/riots depending on who does them? Actual British people (people with 3+ British born grandparents) being policed infinitely more than non British or "recent" fake British people (citizen whose ancestors didn't contibute to UK as a country)?
Immigrants are citizens and it was they you were talking about.
You deny there is a dramatically different treatment of protests/riots depending on who does them? Actual British people (people with 3+ British born grandparents) being policed infinitely more than non British or "recent" fake British people (citizen whose ancestors didn't contibute to UK as a country)?
This isn't how citizenship of the UK is defined.
Also
It's [your dream is] to imprison deport and execute people actually plotting eversive [subversive] actions (which include all constitutionally illegitimate political actions ofc).
In my world you can talk pro Hamas in a bar as a private individual.
You try to gather votes doing that gg
As people are being tried, and have pled guilty, for social media posts, you must therefore be in favour of imprisonment, deportation or execution for them.
Also
As people are being tried, and have pled guilty, for social media posts, you must therefore be in favour of imprisonment, deportation or execution for them.
If the plot was to execute illegal action yes. If the plot is to push a political proposal which is fully constitutional (like a change to immigration laws) no.
Do you understand the difference between protesting in favour of terrorists, and protesting to achieve a legitimate and fully legal political goal?
You don't regard organised people with a political agenda plotting to burn buildings down and attack people as terrorists?
If a person can be clearly linked to a plan to burn down a building yes. Otherwise no.
Clearly as in you can prove he planned of burning down the building, not that he shares legitimate grievances with people that end up burning buildings.
Let's make an example on your side then we go to bed that is necessary at our age: people who agree climate change is a problem and want to fix it aren't responsible for the actions of the terrorists who block airports or other infrastructure "because the climate" unless you prove they were part of groups planning those actions .
The terrorists should get the death penalty. The climate change activists who made no violent move nor planned any are absolutely free to keep talking and protesting (non violently) about the issue they care about.
Although it is sad to see Britain destroy itself in this fashion because it was such a great nation; at the end of the day if Britain's choose this path, then so be it. As an American I selfishly think we should encourage British people who haven't completely given up on Western civilization to emigrate here and continue participating in the Western liberal exceptionalism project.
I mean, didn't BLM have people burning cities and looting stores for 18 months?
The UK is years ahead of the US in terms of social liberalism. You had racial segregation little more than 50 years ago, and still have very deep-rooted racial problems. At least one of your presidential candidates has to pretend to worship a god to have any chance of being elected. You actually have to pay for your healthcare, and if you can't afford it, tough. How is your welfare system? Do you get a pension from the state??
The USA is great in many ways, but to pretend you are some kind of beacon for Western Civilisation is laughable. I'd far rather re-join the EU, and its not even close.
The prospect of living in America is horrible unless you're very rich.
why do you think that? in the median american city housing costs approx 240 USD per sqft, like those are the prices in Wales.
And that , with post tax wages that are close to 2x in the USA for most jobs.
Utility bills and gasoline prices are lower.
Yes there is healthcare, which with out of pocket expenses can matter. Keep 6-7-8% of your yearly income aside (fully tax exempt) in a HSA and you are covered in full with a normal insurance.
But at a level that is exceptionally better than the NHS.
So take your normal white collar generic desk job with mid qualifications in a random company in a mid city.
Like the 40y guy in the supply buying desk of a 200 employees company in the outskirt of liverpool. He makes 30k pounds of take-home (after tax) pay per year. His equivalent outside Dallas makes 60k USD.
The guy in the outskirt of Dallas or Albany or San Antonio or Jacksonville or Ann Arbor pays 4-5k more for healthcare (for the whole family) for the kind of healthcare only millionaires get in London (95% of appointments within the week, max 1 hour wait in ER, single room in hospital and so on).
Everything else in your day by day is cheaper than in the UK basically. Housing especially.
Social security pays more than the UK basic state pension (a lot more) with similar payroll taxes through working life.
Now college is more expensive as well , approx twice as much (20k vs 10k in the UK per year, for decent level tuition in decent colleges). You have options to pay less for lower quality / name recognition of colleges though. But you repay the gap with higher wages easily *in useful sectors* easily within 10 years of working, and the rest is gravy.
And not everyone needs to go to college.
Why do you think very middle class people in very middle class places with no special talents nor liabilities live worse in the USA than in the UK?
I mean, didn't BLM have people burning cities and looting stores for 18 months?
The UK is years ahead of the US in terms of social liberalism. You had racial segregation little more than 50 years ago, and still have very deep-rooted racial problems. At least one of your presidential candidates has to pretend to worship a god to have any chance of being elected. You actually have to pay for your healthcare, and if you can't afford it, tough. How is your welfare system? Do you get a pension from th
Medicaid coverage is better than NHS coverage btw.
The middle class coverage with insurance + out of pocket (some thousands per household) is insanely better than the NHS. Check waiting times for good measure, you won't probably believe it until you look at them.
ER waiting times, the worst state in the USA is A LOT BETTER than Luxembourg (by far the best place in the EU for that). We are talking a little over 1 hour in the worst american state vs almost 3 in the best european one, and 5-6+ for most of them.
That means yes that in many cases, in most states in the USA, you enter the ER even with a non-urgent problem and you are looked at in 20-30 minutes
Yeah but it's ikestoys who is "treating" you.
I'd rather wait another 5 hours.
Nah American upper working class/middle class have it better than the British equivalent. I wish that weren’t the case.
In some ways, not others. You've got to have large amounts coming in to keep your health insurance up. And it'll never cover maternity care, oddly enough. (And there's no statutory maternity leave, so that's awkward too.) And as for pre-existing conditions... oh dear. And if you lose your job, your insurance goes. And in Britain, you really can't wake up after a heart op to be told that, because your anaesthetist was 'off net' (not in a practice recognised by your insurer), you've got a $100,000 bill you weren't expecting and can't get out of -- which can very much happen in the US.
It’s probably better to be poor in UK than US though.
You can say that again. And the 2008 global financial meltdown was caused by US 'sub-prime' mortgage defaults, which occurred because the mainly lower-income black mortgage holders with normal health problems couldn't pay the staggering monthly sums for their necessary medication and also keep up the mortgage repayments.
No extradition outside of truly exceptional cases requires that the person you are asking about had broken a law WHILE PHYSICALLY BEING IN YOUR COUNTRY, I know the USA used to try to ask for extradition for IP violations in huge cases but it was mostly rebuffed.
And we are talking the most powerful country in the history of the world, for cases where billions were on the line.
It is ABSOLUTELY not normal to ask for extradition of speech crimes. Germany has a well enforced law against holocaust den
If you recall, the US requested the UK for the extradition of Julian Assange, who is not a US citizen, for offences committed when he was not in the US. And the case wasn't thrown out at any point, it was resolved by a plea bargain and a sentence to time served on remand.
If you recall, the US requested the UK for the extradition of Julian Assange, who is not a US citizen, for offences committed when he was not in the US. And the case wasn't thrown out at any point, it was resolved by a plea bargain and a sentence to time served on remand.
Yes because (allegedly) assange endangered the lives of hundreds of intelligence officers and what not.
A truly exceptional case and even with that , the UK dragged it's feet and delayed forever.
Now compare that with a random guy writing from Kansas in favour of white supremacists beating some Muslim in Liverpool or whatever
The UK government is telling the judiciary to deal with recent riot cases fast, and to make sure both sides are dealt with publicly, by televising sentencing, and the judiciary is doing what it's told? Is that what is happening?
