Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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But we agree that a stronger emphasis on defense could have prevented (or at least greatly limited) 10 7?
Sure, it’s incredibly easy to say that in hindsight and there was obviously a lapse in security to allow such a devastating attack to occur. However, just focusing on defense or what I guess you’re implying, not invading Gaza is not a viable solution if enemies are allowed to fortify indefinitely right on your border. It doesn’t matter how much you spend on defense, an event like 10/7 becomes an inevitability. Israel is under missile fire and threat of terrorist attacks on a daily basis, they can’t afford to just sit around and react forever. It’s a small nation and already every citizen is required to serve in the military. How much more do you think they can focus on defense as you say? I’m sure you’re not too keen on US support, so what does focusing more on defense look like for Israel? Do they need to literally build a Great Wall? They already have the iron dome which won’t be effective forever.
Just trying to understand, not being snarky. I don’t think parking a ton of troops and tanks on the border is a good idea, if that’s what you’re suggesting. I’m not a military buff, but I think in this situation Hamas will just continue to launch guerrilla attacks which Israel will be forced to largely endure. This forces Israel to place more troops in the line of fire and allocate increasing amounts of resources while their enemies stockpile weapons and supplies, all while launching rockets at troops and civilians alike. If the IDF makes any move to neutralize these targets, the international community will tell them to stop and just focus on defense. How else does this play out?
Israel can eliminate Iran’s conventional military force within days and Israel doesn’t need to do more than that (it doesn’t need to occupy Iran and fight an insurgency)
Didn't realize F15, 16 or 35's have the range to strike Iran. Saudi may need to do them a solid and let them refuel.
Israel can't even take out Hamas and their generals routinely admit they would get smoked by Hezbollah but sure thing they will beat Iran in days.
Sure, it’s incredibly easy to say that in hindsight and there was obviously a lapse in security to allow such a devastating attack to occur. However, just focusing on defense or what I guess you’re implying, not invading Gaza is not a viable solution if enemies are allowed to fortify indefinitely right on your border. It doesn’t matter how much you spend on defense, an event like 10/7 becomes an inevitability. Israel is under missile fire and threat of terrorist attacks on a
It's hindsight as much as claiming that a different more aggressive approach against hamas would have prevented it. In both cases we're really talking about stopping future attacks and in both cases future horrors are inevitability unless there's a political solution. Israel needs political progress far more than the terrorists/extremists do - in fact they will hate it..
I agree the Iron Dome wont be effective. I think people are incredibly complacement about how dangerous drones etc are going to get and how quickly. Israel has no military solution. It needs politcal solutions.
It's hindsight as much as claiming that a different more aggressive approach against hamas would have prevented it. In both cases we're really talking about stopping future attacks and in both cases future horrors are inevitability unless there's a political solution. Israel needs political progress far more than the terrorists/extremists do - in fact they will hate it..
I agree the Iron Dome wont be effective. I think people are incredibly complacement about how dangerous drones etc are going to
It has no military solution if it stays inside it's borders and wait. There is the military solution of occupying Gaza, looking for all terrorists and material supporters of terrorists, killing each and every one of them, and that works
It's hindsight as much as claiming that a different more aggressive approach against hamas would have prevented it. In both cases we're really talking about stopping future attacks and in both cases future horrors are inevitability unless there's a political solution. Israel needs political progress far more than the terrorists/extremists do - in fact they will hate it..
I agree the Iron Dome wont be effective. I think people are incredibly complacement about how dangerous drones etc are going to
The elected government in Gaza is a terrorist org so there’s no political solution until that changes. Hamas wasn’t holding any elections and even if they did they would have won in a landslide. Someone has to remove Hamas through military means and the international community is literally funneling money to them, the opposite of removing them from power.
Israel and the US are far and away the leading nations in military RnD so hopefully they are cooking up some novel anti-drone defense systems.
It's not just hamas, there's hezbullah and apprantly iran in a day. And more. It's as close to impossible as anything is if the bitterness and anger keeps rising. Maybe you can some quick military victories but the problems aren't going away. The inevitable is still there.
Israel and the US are far and away the leading nations in military RnD so hopefully they are cooking up some novel anti-drone defense systems.
Which gives some viability for defense but without politcal solutions it's an arms race with the inevitable horrors and quite possibly existential threat.
Yes the endgame is removing Iran from the geopolitical map, which means going back to a secular Iran, which you could call a "political solution", but i don't think that's what you had in mind.
While the USA can try to achieve that (although it's unclear how, exactly), Israel can't, so while we wait for the socialist theocratic republic of Iran to collapse on itself and give birth to a liberal secular democracy, Israel has to fight its enemies, funded by Iran.
There is no "political solution" in the sense of compromise or agreement with an entity that wants you dead.
You are literally blaming Poland for being invaded by Hitler and the USSR , they should have developed pOlItIcAl SoLuTiOns!!!!!
no
I'd agree that imposing Pahlavi was monstrous and stupid but it's probably a bit late to not do that
Don't Palestinians also need to recognise this? As I understand it, the 2 two state solution has been on the table for Palestinians several times over the last 30 years, but they have ultimately rejected it.
They were never offered a real state. The offers would not have ended the military occupation of the West Bank. Rabin bragged to the Knesset that the offer was for "less than a state."
They were never offered a real state. The offers would not have ended the military occupation of the West Bank. Rabin bragged to the Knesset that the offer was for "less than a state."
What would the difference be, for residents in Gaza, between how things were in say march 2023, and how they would be if a "real state" was offered?
What would the difference be, for residents in Gaza, between how things were in say march 2023, and how they would be if a "real state" was offered?
The problem is actually worse than "nothing will get better for the people," which is true. The problem is that A LOT of people have the hand in the "refugee aid" cookie jar and they have no incentive to form a state and cut off their own income streams.
Under current incentive structures no Palestinian leader, especially Arafat, has ever had any personal incentive to legitimately seek statehood, and they have all had a lot of reasons not to. As I have said before, the Palestinian state exists in the imagination of Westerners, and no where else.
This is all about incentives. Western nations have been incentivizing Palestinian intransigence for 80 years, which is the main reason no progress has been made, and none is on the horizon.
UNRWA is part of the problem, not the solution. The UN/West has to come up with a better mechanism to feed refugees than an organization which is in bed with terrorists and indoctrinates the people to hate.
I know there is a lot of geopolitical reasons to have a UN, even if it is completely compromised and corrupt. But at some point we have to evaluate if the juice really is worth the squeeze.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/articl...
Israeli historian and genocide schooler and former IDF soldier makes some uncomfortable comparisons
Didn't realize F15, 16 or 35's have the range to strike Iran. Saudi may need to do them a solid and let them refuel.
Israel has an undisclosed number, probably seven, of Boeing 707s converted to airborne tankers (they aren't strictly KC-135s on the USAF pattern). Two of them refuelled the ten F-15s used in the attack on PLO headquarters in Tunis in 1985. They're getting old and Israel is due to start receiving four new KC-46 tankers (a military conversion of the 767) next year. But they can refuel strike aircraft in mid-air and the Israelis have had contingency plans for a strike on Iran (particularly its nuclear programme) for some time, though the Americans would very much prefer that they don't do that, for reasons of regional stability, and have made this view clear, just as they and the UK (and possibly others) are now advising Iran not to go and attack Israel.
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/iran-n...
US allegedly presented Tehran list of Mossad agents involved in Haniyeh assassination - report
--Pretty wild if this is true. We know the Democrat Party has been uncomfortably sympathetic to the IRI, to the point of there being credible evidence 2 of Obama's top advisors being spies for Iran, with one of them is under investigation now. But this would obviously be taking things to the next level.
True or false I am not sure why Tehran is openly disclosing this, unless they have already decided to go the route of full regional war, and are just trying to divide US and Israel. True or not, seems this admission would just encourage Israel to escalate with Iran.
Israel has an undisclosed number, probably seven, of Boeing 707s converted to airborne tankers (they aren't strictly KC-135s on the USAF pattern). Two of them refuelled the ten F-15s used in the attack on PLO headquarters in Tunis in 1985. They're getting old and Israel is due to start receiving four new KC-46 tankers (a military conversion of the 767) next year. But they can refuel strike aircraft in mid-air and the Israelis have had contingency plans for a strike on Iran (particularly its nucl
Right but whose airspace are they using to refuel?
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/iran-n...
US allegedly presented Tehran list of Mossad agents involved in Haniyeh assassination - report
--Pretty wild if this is true. We know the Democrat Party has been uncomfortably sympathetic to the IRI, to the point of there being credible evidence 2 of Obama's top advisors being spies for Iran, with one of them is under investigation now. But this would obviously be taking things to the next level.
True or false I am not s
If this is true, the administration must be terrified of escalation.
Little Hamas sure turned the place into a complete **** show and I'm sure Sinwar is quite proud of himself. What a disaster. Fox better have some damn good sources on this report.
almost no chance that's true
We know the Democrat Party has been uncomfortably sympathetic to the IRI, to the point of there being credible evidence 2 of Obama's top advisors being spies for Iran
lmao
