Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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I couldn't find anywhere in this thread the details of the terms Israel offered and then backed out of. I remember when this was bouncing around the news but heard conflicting reports and thought Hamas had their counter offer rejected?
If I remember what happened, a few months ago Egypt announced that Hamas had accepted the latest Israeli offer; and of course the US media did no due diligence and jumped on this and declared a ceasefire. And then Israel and the Israeli media had to correct everyone that what Hamas had actually done is just cross out Israel's offer and replace it with the maximalist demands they have insisted on since Day 1; that are a non starter.
And Victor's post is complete bad faith, and should be treated as such.
So supposedly there is ceasefire talks tomorrow, and the US govt and media is claiming if a ceasefire agreement can be reached then Iran may not attack Israel. Of course Hamas has already announced they wont be participating in the meeting tomorrow. So it seems the US govt/media is just putting pressure on Israel to accept Hamas maximalist terms.
Ironically, the Israeli offer that is actually on the table (that Hamas rejects anyways), a large segment of Israeli population also doesn't support as they feel it is offering too much and doesn't resolve the major issues of: 1) getting hostages back, 2) getting rid of Hamas and 3) solving the security situation wrt Hezbollah on the northern border.
In another very weird story, supposedly Roger Stone's emails were hacked by Iran, and emails that would show Trump in a poor light were leaked to the US media. But the US media is declining to publish the emails pending a FBI investigation.
But if this story was actually true, couldn't Iran just get Al Jazeera to publish the emails? Really makes no sense at all. Almost seems like a psyop to pretend there are incriminating emails when there really aren't. But if that was the case Roger Stone would presumably say so, and he isn't; so hard to tell what is going on.
The IRI, its proxies, and Hamas can all foil Netanyahu's nefarious plot by giving back the hostages and stop attacking Israel; so Netanyahu has no excuse to escalate.
There's always an excuse.
but in principle I agree. Israel should also try to avoid doing what their enemies want. Unfortunately what's good for leaders is often very diffeent to what is good for the country.
So supposedly there is ceasefire talks tomorrow, and the US govt and media is claiming if a ceasefire agreement can be reached then Iran may not attack Israel. Of course Hamas has already announced they wont be participating in the meeting tomorrow. So it seems the US govt/media is just putting pressure on Israel to accept Hamas maximalist terms.
Yep it's outragous that Ismail Haniyeh isn't attending.
Absolulety no excuse for the chief negotiator for hamas not to be attending. Well maybe one.
Yep it's outragous that Ismail Haniyeh isn't attending.
Absolulety no excuse for the chief negotiator for hamas not to be attending. Well maybe one.
Haniyeh was as much an obstacle to peace alive as he is dead, maybe more. The narrative that he was earnestly working towards a ceasefire and that his assassination derailed a close to done deal is ludicrous. He was an influential member of Hamas and the Palestinian movement for 40 years. What are these past examples of him being a champion of peace, because surely there must be some?
Just to clarify: if Israel did not have precision weapons, then they would not have used any weapons at all to attack this location? Why do you feel that way?
FWIW the IDF has announced they have no record of an attack on that apartment complex. So assuming the event actually happened as reported, either the IDF is lying or the explosion was caused by Palestinian actions.
And it is possible that a) the event did not happen as reported and/or b) A Palestinian explosive hit the apartment
--We already know that Hamas sets tons of booby traps, and we know they fire mortars and missiles out of refugee tents from humanitarian zones (which they proudly show on social media), without aiming at all. The deaths could have been caused by either of these actions, or something along these lines.
Haniyeh was as much an obstacle to peace alive as he is dead, maybe more. The narrative that he was earnestly working towards a ceasefire and that his assassination derailed a close to done deal is ludicrous.
I dont think he was particularly relevant either way. Even Al Jazeera acknowledges Sinwar has final say, and is the one demanding Israel withdraw completely. The only way Haniyeh's death could have impeded ceasefire talks is if he had some personal ability to communicate with Sinwar that is lost now. And that seems unlikely.
Haniyeh was as much an obstacle to peace alive as he is dead, maybe more. The narrative that he was earnestly working towards a ceasefire and that his assassination derailed a close to done deal is ludicrous. He was an influential member of Hamas and the Palestinian movement for 40 years. What are these past examples of him being a champion of peace, because surely there must be some?
Not sure where this narratiuve about a close to done deal is but the rest is unconvincing.
I was though responding to the sheer cheeck of complaining that israel is being pressured by the usa because hamas isn't at the talks.
i stopped after the first ~10, but there's 25 of them, and they're all about the same ..... if you wanna beat the bias allegations, maybe start by treating genocidal dogshit like this as seriously as "mocking israel"
He was already banned for a week when I saw those, so he was infracted for those posts on top of his ban.
Some of you are so antagonistic toward me. It’s ridiculous.
he was banned for being a transphobe in a different thread, not for any of that. my mocking posts get deleted for being "inflammatory", but those are a-ok
(evidenced by the fact that they're still there)
meanwhile if anyone said anything like that about israel i suspect they'd have their account nuked, be ip banned, etc
I saw his trans posts before I saw his posts here or he would have eaten a longer ban.
I often leave up penalized posts as records of what not to do.
They have nothing to do with you being told to troll this thread less.
Just to clarify: if Israel did not have precision weapons, then they would not have used any weapons at all to attack this location? Why do you feel that way?
Israel uses all the weapons it has. if it didnt have these weapons then less people would be dead bc they would have dropped less bombs.
ofc, last time I posted this sentiment it was deleted. you probably saw it that time so I dunno why you are asking this question. (I actually do know why)
Israel uses all the weapons it has. if it didnt have these weapons then less people would be dead bc they would have dropped less bombs.
ofc, last time I posted this sentiment it was deleted. you probably saw it that time so I dunno why you are asking this question. (I actually do know why)
The reason why is because I wanted to know the answer to that question. It's obvious you don't think Israel is not bombing out of restraint, so I was confused why you would say that. I do not believe for a second that Israel is so low on bombs that they are literally firing them off as soon as USA hands them over.
If Israel wants a target dead then they have plenty of bombs in their arsenal to choose from which aren't smart bombs.
no they really are using them as soon as they arrive. its like clockwork.
If Israel was seriously down to their last bombs, and firing those off as soon as they arrived then Iran's proxies would be acting very differently.
In another very weird story, supposedly Roger Stone's emails were hacked by Iran, and emails that would show Trump in a poor light were leaked to the US media. But the US media is declining to publish the emails pending a FBI investigation.
But if this story was actually true, couldn't Iran just get Al Jazeera to publish the emails? Really makes no sense at all. Almost seems like a psyop to pretend there are incriminating emails when there really aren't. But if that was the case Roger Stone w
why give to Al-Jazeera when if only they publish it people like you will discredit it and call it fake news
anecdotal ragebait, bro
and speaking of which, here's mehdi with a new documentary of anecdotal ragebait. just hundreds or thousands of individual anecdotal war crimes and declarations of genocidal intent that definitely don't add up to any kind of pattern, even if soldiers and others admit that lots of this stuff is being ordered from the top down (like the civilian detainee bomb-sniffing human shield story from the other day):
I couldn't find anywhere in this thread the details of the terms Israel offered and then backed out of. I remember when this was bouncing around the news but heard conflicting reports and thought Hamas had their counter offer rejected?
grim talks about it around 5:00 of this video:
he says it's a deal the biden/israel put forward in july, not sure which one that was. but i assume this is to prove that netanyahu has been telling the truth all along that he doesn't want any kind of deal.
Pallywood releases yet another mockumentary and we are supposed to care about it and you use as a source lol
Primary sources are the evidence of history, original records or objects created by participants or observers at the time historical events occurred or even well after events, as in memoirs and oral histories.
yeah genocidal maniacs documenting their war crimes against humanity in their own words, sometimes with the accompanying video evidence, is the good stuff
Just to clarify: if Israel did not have precision weapons, then they would not have used any weapons at all to attack this location? Why do you feel that way?
It's really simple BG: the US should cease supplying arms to a nation that is committing mass murder. As obnoxious and inarticulate as Victor can be, he's kind of correct here.
