Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
LOL, what? Dude, loosen your helmet straps or something. How would I ever be denying this "status" when I referenced jizya? My entire point is that this "status" was not one of protection, fair treatment, or something positive. This is the misinformation I am referencing, little feller.
This "status" was quite literally extortion from the colonizers who conquered the land from the native inhabitants. Perhaps if you weren't so allergic to reading a few paragraphs, you wouldn't be so woefully misi
Not reading this word salad little man. Move on.
The Arab nations are not interested in helping "Palestinians" at all. They are used as a proxy to keep killing Jews, which none of the Arab nations want there. Anyway, no, Jordan wants nothing to do with them because they have such a significant population of terrorists who cause nothing but problems. They were forcefully expelled in the 70's after hijacking several planes and landing them there.
Oh yeah, they also assassinated the Jordanian prime minister. After expulsion, they went to Lebanon,
"nobody wants them bc they are problematic"
where have we heard this before? no idea bc Ive never read a history book and the ones I did read I forgot and theres no comparisons allowed in this thread.
Israel should do something it's never tried before -- grant a state or the right to vote. You know, human rights.
Israel allowed the Gazans to hold a democratic election. They voted in Hamas. Hamas rejects a two-state solution. Their charter literally outlines their purpose as destroying Israel. Again, have you ever read anything about any of this? Never mind, you've been parroting these brainless takes for years. This dude thinks Israel is an Apartheid state, despite having a decade to realize that 20% of the popula... and largely Muslim. They can vote, own and, serve in the military, work in the Knesset, etc. Why are basic definitions so difficult for people?
BRF,
Ok, I accept your concession. If adhering to the definitions of simple words is this confusing for you, I agree that it's best to just hang it up. I'm a little tired from beating on an unresponsive person so thanks for tapping out. Have a good day.
Israel allowed the Gazans to hold a democratic election. They voted in Hamas. Hamas rejects a two-state solution. Their charter literally outlines their purpose as destroying Israel. Again, have you ever read anything about any of this?
But they didn't end the occupation. Hamas gained prestige because the PA failed to achieve a state, which is on Israel.
This dude thinks Israel is an Apartheid state, despite having a decade to realize that 20% of the population are Arab and largely Muslim.
The West Bank is under apartheid.
Prof. Omer Bartov is one of the world's pre-eminent experts on genocide. This is a devastating interview - one which explains why now he's changed his view, and believes Israel is committing genocide.
There was no occupation in Gaza when they held their elections. They voluntarily withdrew nearly 20 years ago. You think it's unreasonable that they take normal security measures like monitor what comes in when they spend every waking hour plotting to kill them?
If "Palestinians" don't want to be babysat, they should learn to play nice. Unfortunately, when they're raised to believe that killing Jews is a ticket to paradise, I don't see things changing. But you don't care.
Putting “palestinian” in quotes? I feel like the implication is clear but why not spell it out.
There was no occupation in Gaza when they held their elections. They voluntarily withdrew nearly 20 years ago. You think it's unreasonable that they take normal security measures like monitor what comes in when they spend every waking hour plotting to kill them?
If "Palestinians" don't want to be babysat, they should learn to play nice. Unfortunately, when they're raised to believe that killing Jews is a ticket to paradise, I don't see things changing. But you don't care.
Israel has killed like 50x the amount of people Hamas has. How do you feel about that
There was no occupation in Gaza when they held their elections. They voluntarily withdrew nearly 20 years ago. You think it's unreasonable that they take normal security measures like monitor what comes in when they spend every waking hour plotting to kill them?
If "Palestinians" don't want to be babysat, they should learn to play nice. Unfortunately, when they're raised to believe that killing Jews is a ticket to paradise, I don't see things changing. But you don't care.
Good points. I'm really dumbfounded how all of this can be so easily overlooked.
Ok, give Palestinians a state... then what? They don't value education, they beat their women and children, they kill anyone who is gay. Don't believe in freedom of religion. They put almost no value on life, and martyrdom is something to be aspired to. They believe their prophet that all the worlds lands are for Muslim people ONLY. What do you think that area looks like 100 years from now?
Vs... an extremely educated people, who provide equal rights to women, allow people to love and marry who they want. Value life and religious freedom, including the freedom of no religion.
Again... Israel is not the aggressor here. Have any of you been to Israel? I'm guessing none of you have. I have.
How does someone defend these things? Is it just about virtue signaling? Does anyone defending this think that MAYBE... just MAYBE with the long history of antisemitism in this world, and the fact that Muslims out number Jews 150:1, that maybe the things they are hearing aren't 100% accurate?
Is that even considered?
Israel has killed like 75k Palestinians in the last 20 years
Hamas has killed like 1500
Who is more evil?
Good points. I'm really dumbfounded how all of this can be so easily overlooked.
Ok, give Palestinians a state... then what? They don't value education, they beat their women and children, they kill anyone who is gay. Don't believe in freedom of religion. They put almost no value on life, and martyrdom is something to be aspired to. They believe their prophet that all the worlds lands are for Muslim people ONLY. What do you think that area looks like 100 years from now?
Vs... an extremely educated
holy ****
Good points. I'm really dumbfounded how all of this can be so easily overlooked.
Ok, give Palestinians a state... then what? They don't value education, they beat their women and children, they kill anyone who is gay. Don't believe in freedom of religion. They put almost no value on life, and martyrdom is something to be aspired to. They believe their prophet that all the worlds lands are for Muslim people ONLY. What do you think that area looks like 100 years from now?
Vs... an extremely educated
Agreed, although they don't think that far ahead. They don't care. Also, while Israel is LGBTQ+ friendly, they don't allow same-sex marriage, FYI.
Putting “palestinian” in quotes? I feel like the implication is clear but why not spell it out.
Because there is no such thing as "Palestinian" in the way people use it. I refuse to take part in revisionist history that promotes anti-Semitism. "Palestine" is not a place and it never was. Jerusalem/Judea were places. I correctly use the term "Arab" to differentiate between the "Palestinian" Arabs in the area. Calling them "Palestinian" falsely promotes the idea that there was a place called Palestinian filled with indigenous Arabs called "Palestinians." In reality, the term is a collective identity coined in the 60's to challenge Zionism. There is no such thing as "Palestinians" in the way people use it.
Nonsense. The IDF withdrew to the periphery and kept the borders closed. Gazans weren't even allowed an airport, or to fish more than three miles out.
Wow, they didn't allow the terrorists who celebrated 9/11 an airport? Well, they did, but Israel handled security for it, right? But still, they didn't allow a fully functioning airport for the people who've been hijacking planes for terror since the 1970s? Crazy! How dare they!
It's almost like if you spend the entirety of your life promoting genocide against your neighbors, they reasonably intervene with your ability to carry it out!
But they didn't end the occupation. Hamas gained prestige because the PA failed to achieve a state, which is on Israel.
The West Bank is under apartheid.
lmao, Hamas gained "prestige" because if it weren't Hamas, it'd be some other radical Islamic terrorist group. Israel doesn't unilaterally control the West Bank, which isn't in Israel, by the way, so maybe stop saying "IsRaEl iS aN ApArThEiD sTaTe!!!" Do they not split the West Bank into different sections that fall under the control of the respective leaders? Or do Arabs control NONE of the West Bank? Do you even know wtf Apartheid was? It requires a unified entity ruling over a region with racial discrimination as the SOP. Israel instituting checkpoints for the Arabs to go through so they're not wearing suicide vests or feeling stabby isn't that.
Please tell me what you think would happen if Israel universally withdrew from every aspect of Arab life in the West Bank and Gaza and left them to their own devices. What can we expect?
Absolutely. Just clarifying the marriage part since they don't currently allow it. I could see that being something someone from the peanut gallery latches onto as a "gotcha." I'd like to avoid the annoyance, haha.
But these folks already have their mind made up. There's no critical thinking involved.
It's pretty simple, Palestinians have the right to armed resistance against an illegal apartheid occupation. Israel's only legal response is to end the occupation and pay reparations. It's certainly not justified in doing a plausible genocide.
Again... wtf are you talking about?
Jews have been in Israel for THOUSANDS of years. They are indigenous to that area. Where did you guys go to school?
They were also indigenous to Egypt and Syria and Yemen and Turkey and Iran and other Muslim countries before being driven out of those countries by Muslims. No one at the UN is worried about the Jews, so-called right of return. Is anyone pressuring Muslim countries to give Jews their homes back?
You guys literally know nothing about what you're talking about. You've been propagandized, and you're stuck defending people who rape their women, provide their women no rights, and are OK with it.
Absolutely. Just clarifying the marriage part since they don't currently allow it. I could see that being something someone from the peanut gallery latches onto as a "gotcha." I'd like to avoid the annoyance, haha.
But these folks already have their mind made up. There's no critical thinking involved.
Agreed.
I honestly don't think people will be able to understand what's going on here, without doing a serious deep dive into antisemitism. A few decades ago I got really fascinated with the whole topic because I couldn't understand how people could be so against a group of people that had a long history of developed reading and writing, were highly intelligent, reasoned and kind on the whole. I'm not Jewish, but I just couldn't grasp exactly what was going on. I learned a lot about people and life through that journey.
Before people say... what, we can't have a discussion about this w/o being accused of being antisemitic? I'm not saying that, and I'm not accusing anyone of that. It just plays a gigantic role in the world, which is again, fascinating if you consider there's only 15 million Jews, and 2 billion Muslims.
How do you feel about Hamas strapping bombs to kids, and sending them into hospitals so that they can enter heaven a martyr?
they dont do this and never have.
Again... wtf are you talking about?
Jews have been in Israel for THOUSANDS of years. They are indigenous to that area. Where did you guys go to school?
They were also indigenous to Egypt and Syria and Yemen and Turkey and Iran and other Muslim countries before being driven out of those countries by Muslims. No one at the UN is worried about the Jews, so-called right of return. Is anyone pressuring Muslim countries to give Jews their homes back?
You guys literally know nothing about what you're talk
International Courts and International Law deem it an apartheid occupation. doesnt matter if "Jews are indigenous".
ofc Muslim countries should provide reparations or right of return for anyone they forcefully removed. but I am not sure why the Palestinians need to pay the price for the actions of Iraq or Algeria in the 50s.
you are quite misinformed if you think that women have no rights in Palestine, or that they dont value education, or that they dont allow freedom of religion. this is easy stuff to look up.
In other news, it is being leaked out that Egypt is actually holding back ceasefire negotiations at least as much as Hamas is. Egypt REALLY doesn't want Israel to control the border with Rafah, and are blocking proposals that involve Israel holding the border, even before they get to Hamas.
I suspect controlling the smuggling tunnels provide Egypt with a lot of regional control and money, that they are unwilling to just give up. Also, at the end of the day, like many Arab nations, although they are completely indifferent to the well being of the Palestinian people themselves, they cynically believe that Israel being preoccupied fighting Palestinians increases their own regional power and security relatively.
There is an idea being floated of giving the border to a UN force to control. But the UN technically is controlling the border with Lebanon and Israel and we see how that is going. And I see no reason to suspect a UN force on the border with Egypt would be any more useful or effective.
they dont do this and never have.
International Courts and International Law deem it an apartheid occupation. doesnt matter if "Jews are indigenous".
ofc Muslim countries should provide reparations or right of return for anyone they forcefully removed. but I am not sure why the Palestinians need to pay the price for the actions of Iraq or Algeria in the 50s.
you are quite misinformed if you think that women have no rights in Palestine, or that they dont value education, or that they dont allow
Yes... they do those things.
And yes, one of us is very misinformed... VERY. Here's what I put into google, and here's literally the AI response:
women's right in palestine
Women in Palestine face many challenges to their rights, including gender-based violence, discriminatory laws, and unequal distribution of power:
Gender-based violence
According to Amnesty International, 59% of married women and girls in Palestine experience violence from their partners. The Women's Centre for Legal Aid and Counselling expects this number to increase in 2023 due to conflict and deprivation. Activists say that patriarchal norms and the Israeli military occupation contribute to these incidents, and that existing laws are outdated and discriminatory. Perpetrators often go unpunished, especially if the victim is killed by a relative who believes she has dishonored the family.
Discriminatory laws
Women in Palestine face discriminatory laws in personal status law, which is based on religious law. They also face discriminatory legal systems that limit their rights to property. Outdated laws can also prevent women from accessing justice by reinforcing stereotypical gender roles and denying their right to live free from violence.
Unequal distribution of power
Women in Palestine face unequal distribution of power and resources between men and women. For example, in the Palestinian Authority (PA), the president has almost all the power and can appoint high-ranking positions, which often go to male members of his party or male returnees from exile. This practice can prevent women from participating equally in the state-building process
I could go on, but honestly, this is a waste of my time. You're not invoking any real curiosity for the truth. You're stuck on, Israel bad, Palestine good... the end.
