2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
Taxation of unrealized capital gain (for the federal government) is still unclear, see Moore (2024) where SCOTUS decided to answer narrowly and not broadly.
Macomber (1920) still holds but unclear in it's scope
Wealth tax is probably unconstitutional because of the apportionment clause (unknown as, afaik, there are no SCOTUS decisions on the topic)
Moore is difficult to extend to much, but it's probably accurate that the 16A's intent is not to tax unrealized gains.
so do they just lump in the wealth tax with income tax?
IMHO, like a house , any wealth that can be borrowed against it should be taxed .
But we could just say for other more liquid assets (like stocks) , u never pay a wealth taxed as long u never borrow money against it .
That would prevent non sense like Elon and other billionaires to use collateral as income (by borrowing against) without ever paying any taxes despite using it like income and preventing true price discovery in the market .
I wonder didace opinion about it ?
Ex-Adviser Slams Trump for Getting Pushed Around by Foreign Leader
Donald Trump was easily taken advantage of by foreign leaders, according to a new book by one of the former president’s ex–national security advisers.
In At War with Ourselves: My Tour of Duty in the Trump White House, Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster detailed the inner workings of the Trump administration between February 2017 to April 2018. McMaster has given new insight into just how easy it was for foreign leaders to outwit Trump, who has been desperate to paint himself as a strongman on the international stage.
According to The New York Times, McMaster wrote that he once tried to prepare Trump for a trip to China in November 2017, the “most consequential” stop on the former president’s tour through Asia. McMaster recalled attempting to explain to Trump that Chinese President Xi Jinping would attempt to get Trump to say things that were good for China, but not in the best interest of the U.S. and its allies. McMaster warned Trump to steel himself, and the former president seemed to understand.
When it came time to meet with Xi, however, everything came apart. Trump ended up mindlessly agreeing with Xi that South Korea’s military exercises were “provocative” and a “waste of time.” Trump also suggested that China might have a legitimate claim to the Senkaku Islands, which have been controlled by Japan since 1895.
I don't recall a time that a major party presidential candidate has hid from the media for this long outside of biden. Most of them do a bunch of interviews and answer unscripted questions and to my knowledge not one has ever be accused of hiding their VP nominee.
The new normal in terms of decision guidance for those running for president has become "is doing or not doing this going to result in a net positive when it comes to getting me elected?" So yeah, however things were done, or what was long considered standard practice, is not automatically being adhered to.
trickle-down = tinkled-on
IMHO, like a house , any wealth that can be borrowed against it should be taxed .
But we could just say for other more liquid assets (like stocks) , u never pay a wealth taxed as long u never borrow money against it .
That would prevent non sense like Elon and other billionaires to use collateral as income (by borrowing against) without ever paying any taxes despite using it like income and preventing true price discovery in the market .
I wonder didace opinion about it ?
I understand your point, but banking is private enough for institutions to have their own standards on how to lend.
The question might be: should the leveraged equity (wealth) be taxed or just the gains derived from having wealth? Does that make sense?
Your answer for where to get more tax money will always be - Let's discourage hard work and take more from the people who are responsible for bettering our lives.
The biggest misconception with this line of thinking is to believe stock prices going higher has any impact on gdp or help the poor getting a better life .
It’s just money sitting there and doing nothing but going up.
I mean for over a decade , corporations have so much money in hands what they do it with it -> buyback programs shares at all time high .
It does 0 to grow the economy or help the poor and certainly not help the government since they could buy bonds instead of stocks to lower rates and help the economy and the poor to grow.
Nope all they do is propping the stock prices even higher so when the ceo and other sells , they always gets the big money in almost free of charge compare to income taxes.
The only thing going up in prices that have some kind of benefits to society is houses because they are taxes on it every year but even that I’m not sure in the end its that beneficial since to the cost of living for normal people probably go up faster then the benefit of taxing houses.
I understand your point, but banking is private enough for institutions to have their own standards on how to lend.
The question might be: should the leveraged equity (wealth) be taxed or just the gains derived from having wealth? Does that make sense?
It’s make sense but I don’t agree about that part .
It should be on the total of borrowing because they use it has an income to buy stuff like any other wages would be used for.
If it was only about gains I’m sure they would find loopholes like losing money on purpose on 100 millions borrowed and so pay no tax on it and some crazy ideas like that shrug.
I understand your point, but banking is private enough for institutions to have their own standards on how to lend.
The question might be: should the leveraged equity (wealth) be taxed or just the gains derived from having wealth? Does that make sense?
In the case of real estate most countries tax the value of the property regardless of mortgages, while financial wealth is taxed differently
It’s make sense but I don’t agree about that part .
It should be on the total of borrowing because they use it has an income to buy stuff like any other wages would be used for.
I’m sure they would find loopholes like losing money on purpose on 100 millions borrowed and so pay no tax on it and some crazy ideas like that shrug.
Montreal ask yourself why you would tax someone who borrows to buy 100k of stocks, every year, on his holdings, but not someone who borrows to buy 100k of elegant and expensive forniture.
If anything shouldn't we push people toward savings and not consumption?
Montreal ask yourself why you would tax someone who borrows to buy 100k of stocks, every year, on his holdings, but not someone who borrows to buy 100k of elegant and expensive forniture.
If anything shouldn't we push people toward savings and not consumption?
Because one grows gdp and the other do not .
Stocks price going up do not affect gdp.
It contribute nothing to the economy .
Sorry for the late edit-> and we are speaking about borrowing against collateral that should be taxed not just borrowing money And be taxed on it !
There is a big difference .
I edited ….
If I borrow from my house a 100k to buy stocks , how does it affect the economy at all ?
It creates nothing .
Just push prices up .
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers....
Does GDP Measure the Stock Market?
No, GDP does not measure the stock market. GDP measures personal consumption, business investment, government spending, and net exports. The level of GDP, particularly its growth or contraction, however, does have an impact on how the stock market performs, given whether or not investors are optimistic about the future of the economy based on GDP numbers.
Home equity is one of the largest pushers of consumer spending
If you borrow against it and buy stuff , yes.
If u buy stocks for example with , it produce nothing and do not affect the economy.
That is called a ponzi scheme.
I buy stocks, stocks go up, I have more money , I buy more houses at higher prices, I can borrow more from my house, I buy more stocks, stocks go up , I can buy more houses with prices going higher ,etc.
It creates nothing at all , just paper creating more paper until it crashes -> 2008 for example.
It isn't a wealth tax, I think it goes into the "corporate + Capital gain".
The dutch system is alternative to capital gain taxation basically
My gut tells me that the tax we are talking about is a small portion of their revenue. It’s hard to tell from those charts though
The biggest misconception with this line of thinking is to believe stock prices going higher has any impact on gdp or help the poor getting a better life .
It’s just money sitting there and doing nothing but going up.
I mean for over a decade , corporations have so much money in hands what they do it with it -> buyback programs shares at all time high .
It does 0 to grow the economy or help the poor and certainly not help the government since they could buy bonds instead of stocks to lower rates an
I don’t understand this line of thinking, at least not in the context of American economies. Most Americans for instance have 401k. There are definitely retail investors, and actually most Americans probably don’t invest in the stock market enough. Furthermore, a bad stock market means losing jobs, and a mediocre stock market means not adding jobs. A healthy stock market is one economic indicator that the entire economy is doing well. It’s very highly correlated with a good economy.
When google spenda to create a new data center that drives the economy as much as consumption in the present, but more than it in the future as that data center will allow more production, unlike consumption.
Investment in real assets drives the economy more than anything else.
