Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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man, I dont think you guys want to go down the road of "material support equals a death sentence." well, I guess consistency was never a strong suit for the liberals so its proly fine.
If you add material supporters (15y old relaying messages to Hamas operatives, 30y women tending their wounds or preparing them meals and so on) it's more than 3/4
You don’t think there is possible coercion going on within the Hamas hierarchy such that they can compel people to support them against their will?
My problem with Hamas is that by not having any uniform or way of differentiating them from noncombatants, they make civilian casualties inevitable and can always claim some operative or another was actually a civilian casualty.
I don’t think a mother helping Hamas at the barrel of a gun should necessarily count as a combatant.
I did since day one.
Material support of the enemy in war completly justifies killing on the field.
Especially on war where the enemy doesn't always wear uniforms it's utterly absurd to ask one side to differentiate supporters from actual fighters or to care to spare their lives when taking down enemy clusters.
I am not a liberal though.
You don’t think there is possible coercion going on within the Hamas hierarchy such that they can compel people to support them against their will?
My problem with Hamas is that by not having any uniform or way of differentiating them from noncombatants, they make civilian casualties inevitable and can always claim some operative or another was actually a civilian casualty.
I don’t think a mother helping Hamas at the barrel of a gun should necessarily count as a combatant.
If people are compelled to do tasks for Hamas and/or stay in the vicinity of Hamas bases and so on, then they fall under the human shield victims.
It can certainly happen, and I am sure Hamas does that.
typical liberal hypocrisy. I am disappoint.
Ah typical liberal hypocrisy. Supporting a liberal democracy defending itself over a terrorist organization that randomly attacks civilians.
its liberal hypocrisy to hold the Palestinians to a completely different standard than you hold your team. ofc, its not surprising and we all know why it is done.
liberals: anyone providing material support to our enemy is punishable by death
Hamas: kills a bunch of IDF ravers
liberals: nooooo not like that
some Gazan turned 18 and paid taxes on his summer job. thats material support. liberals ofc sleep well knowing it was good drone strike on him and his younger brother and sister. (they would sleep well anyway).
liberals: anyone providing material support to our enemy is punishable by death
Hamas: kills a bunch of IDF ravers
liberals: nooooo not like that
Mods threatened to ban Luciom for making factual statements about IQ differences across ethnicity but will allow Victor to spew his garbage terrorist apologia? lmao
you are the people who are saying that anyone who provides "material support" is worthy of killing. you are the ones who are creating a situation where no civilian is off limits.
I am just summarizing this insane liberal position and dont subscribe to it.
I am not a liberal so I don't need any hypocrisy.
Palestinian terrorists have no legitimacy to do anything to anyone.
the IDF is fully legitimized to used lethal violence to secure the safety of Israeli.
why? because Israel is a democratic country with a standing army while Palestine is a made up concept with no real life elements, and the people living in Gaza and the west bank have no right to organize violently to achieve their goals.
you are the people who are saying that anyone who provides "material support" is worthy of killing. you are the ones who are creating a situation where no civilian is off limits.
I am just summarizing this insane liberal position and dont subscribe to it.
You combined our two positions into one. We don't have the same position. You're also calling Luciom a liberal which is probably just a Marxist equivocation.
We all know you're a pro-Stalin tankie so I doubt you have any actual principle against indiscriminate killing.
The IDF isn't "killing tens of thousands in Gaza". The IDF killed tens of thousands in a completly justified carpet attack to the territory to dismantle main Hamas strongholds all at the same time, many months ago, and currently is killing 1-2k per month at most since like April.
Of which the vast majority Hamas members or material supporters, + people used as human shield by Hamas. Very very few completly innocent people not put into harm way on purpose by Hamas, almost 0
bruv this you?
lol not only are material supporters worthy of killing, also the supposed human shields (who are deemed such by IDF ofc).
face it, if you apply this criteria then there is no such thing as a civilian on either side.
You combined our two positions into one. We don't have the same position. You're also calling Luciom a liberal which is probably just a Marxist equivocation.
We all know you're a pro-Stalin tankie so I doubt you have any actual principle against indiscriminate killing.
you do realize who was anti-Stalin right? its kinda weird to align yourself with that crew but hey, it reads.
What is an "IDF raver"?
The entire article is a good read, especially for anyone who thinks one side is entirely in the right.
Full ICC statement on Netanyahu and Hamas arrest warrants
"On the basis of evidence collected and examined by my Office, I have reasonable grounds to believe that Yahya SINWAR (Head of the Islamic Resistance Movement (“Hamas”😉 in the Gaza Strip), Mohammed Diab Ibrahim AL-MASRI, more commonly known as DEIF (Commander-in-Chief of the military wing of Hamas, known as the Al-Qassam Brigades), and Ismail HANIYEH (Head of Hamas Political Bureau) bear criminal responsibility for the following war crimes and crimes against humanity committed on the territory of Israel and the State of Palestine (in the Gaza strip) from at least 7 October 2023:
Extermination as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(b) of the Rome Statute;
Murder as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(a), and as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
Taking hostages as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(iii);
Rape and other acts of sexual violence as crimes against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(g), and also as war crimes pursuant to article 8(2)(e)(vi) in the context of captivity;
Torture as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(f), and also as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i), in the context of captivity;
Other inhumane acts as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(l)(k), in the context of captivity;
Cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i), in the context of captivity; and
Outrages upon personal dignity as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(ii), in the context of captivity.
"On the basis of evidence collected and examined by my Office, I have reasonable grounds to believe that Benjamin NETANYAHU, the Prime Minister of Israel, and Yoav GALLANT, the Minister of Defence of Israel, bear criminal responsibility for the following war crimes and crimes against humanity committed on the territory of the State of Palestine (in the Gaza strip) from at least 8 October 2023:
Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Statute;
Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health contrary to article 8(2)(a)(iii), or cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
Wilful killing contrary to article 8(2)(a)(i), or Murder as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
Intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population as a war crime contrary to articles 8(2)(b)(i), or 8(2)(e)(i);
Extermination and/or murder contrary to articles 7(1)(b) and 7(1)(a), including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity;
Persecution as a crime against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(h);
Other inhumane acts as crimes against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(k).
Hamas and the Gazans are not the perfect victims. duly noted.
Hamas being a victim might be the dumbest thing you have ever said.
Correct, the core issue here is the people not recognizing the toxicity of Jihad on western democracies. The pro-Palestinian people in here are overlooking that entirely, complaining about occupation and land disputes. You can listen to the well documented call of the Hamas kid calling his mom from the woman's phone he just killed and bragging about the fact he just killed 10 Jews w/ his bare hands, and his mother and father being so proud.
Not acknowledging that's a massive problem for Islam as
Islam is beyond defense, but killing noncombatants is indefensible. Once you do that, you're no longer the good guys in the race.
The IDF isn't "killing tens of thousands in Gaza". The IDF killed tens of thousands in a completly justified carpet attack to the territory to dismantle main Hamas strongholds all at the same time, many months ago, and currently is killing 1-2k per month at most since like April.
Of which the vast majority Hamas members or material supporters, + people used as human shield by Hamas. Very very few completly innocent people not put into harm way on purpose by Hamas, almost 0
man, I dont think you guys want to go down the road of "material support equals a death sentence." well, I guess consistency was never a strong suit for the liberals so its proly fine.
lol
Luciom out there justifying the next 9/11 and has no ****ing clue
