2024 Presidential Debate 2 Electric Boogaloo

nader didn't play spoiler, what you fail to realize is like ed mentioned, most don't vote

nader spoiler is a myth not based on anything other than copium

overwhelming majority of nader voters were not going to show up to the polls if nader were not on the ballot

likewise, if there were not a 3rd party option, i would just write in someone or not vote

i can't in good conscience vote for either of these candidates - one sucks balls and the other should be executed for treason and it's just extremely upsetting he's not only wholly escaped punishment but is also somehow allowed to run again

You would have to change the rules significantly in order for a durable, competitive third party to emerge in the United States. In the current environment, I can promise only one thing. If a third party candidate gets more than 10-15% of the vote, the candidate will be a billionaire (probably many times over) and the party effectively will be a cult of personality built around the specific billionaire candidate.

It sounds like many of you would prefer the government of Germany or some other country where coalition governments are more common. That sort of system obviously gives more of a voice to people who do not support the leading parties, which can be good or bad depending on the situation and the party in question.

and again, the democrats cost themselves the election by putting up a terrible candidate

maybe one day they'll find and groom good future leaders of the state instead of just picking some bro of theirs

if they had a good candidate, he would have won easily - instead they went with gore

much like how in 2017 we found that the dnc was complicit in rigging the primary for hilldawg, who then as the worst candidate ever put forward lost to the 2nd worst candidate ever put forward

bernie would have crushed him

and now again, they could have literally opened a primary where the massive favorite was whitmer, an insanely popular governor who is a woman and is strongly liked by the rust belt

whitmer was a far better candidate that kamala, but we just anointed kamala instead of going through a primary

and then kamala could have taken shapiro, someone who'd lock down pennsylvania, a state that kamala appaears unlikely or at best a coin flip to win right now and that's a state that will basically guarantee the win if she gets it, instead she goes with walz to cave to the base which were voting for her anyway

just so dumb on so many levels

but sure, nader is the problem - no copium here at all

ironically from our earlier dms about narcissists, this is exactly how a narcissist operates, they never take blame for anything, everything can be explained away and when blame is given out, it's given out to others - al gore didn't massively suck - it was nader's fault

Of all the non-religious assertions that have been repeated in the Politics subforum of 2+2 in the last twenty years, this is one of the most faith-based.

yeah i'd be down with that, would also like something like singapore where there's an exhaustive list of requirements needed to run for office and pays market rates so it's a good career that draws the best and brightest and excludes the rest

I don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about psychiatric medications, but there is no doubt in my mind that they are way over prescribed. Just look at the percentages of the population that take SSRIs, ADHD meds, etc. We're still in the infancy of psychiatry, and there are a lot of people in the field that are too sure of themselves. I have a lot of thoughts on this topic but will leave it there.

It's almost as if you didn't read what I wrote.

The not voting data point is irrelevant, because people who voted 3rd party, DID vote. Those people made the choice to participate, just like you are. And just like you, they are deciding to throw a tantrum and vote for someone who cannot win. If instead, these people who did vote, chose 1 of the 2 parties, Bush would likely have not won.

I'm over this discussion.

I have written a million posts on this topic over the years. The short answer is that I don't know exactly how to answer your question as phrased.

I like Bernie as a person more than I like Hillary. I think that Bernie has more conviction about his beliefs than HRC does. I think that Bernie is more honest than most politicians. I do not favor all of Bernie's policies. I do favor some of them. Some of Bernie's policies are simply fantasies because there is no chance they can be implemented.

I never shared the much of the forum's optimism about his electability. In order to win a national election, you have to win swing states. There are vanishingly few examples of progressive candidates faring well in statewide elections in swing states. If voters in swing states really wanted candidates like Bernie, you would see more governors and senators from those states that resemble Bernie.

When I make this argument, people habitually point me to issue polling which they claim proves that a majority of people in nearly every state want progressive policies. I take some of that issue polling with a grain of salt. Issue polling obviously has its place, but much of it is done by people or groups with their own policy agendas, and it is easy to manipulate the results of issue polling by either ignoring or overemphasizing the tradeoffs that may be required in order to pursue specific policies. If I started to see people in swing states electing progressive candidates to statewide office, my views about the viability of a candidate like Bernie in a national election would shift.

No 3rd debate. Looking forward to the Vance/Walz

Lol, what a ****ing puss

FYP

Seems like a waste to even answer if we're not sure Trump or a Dem matters.

i think from your never once in your life changed your own oil ues ivory tower of advanced degrees and pushing paper you tremendously fail to understand middle america

it's not progressive issues

it's voting in a candidate who is a puss or not - basically that simple, we've never been an issues based electorate since televised debates - i'm sure you know this as well

the imagery is this

if you can avoid looking like those people, middle america will be down with you

between bernie and hilldawg, hilldawg far more easily fits into the group that'll scream meat is murder at you

look at bernie win over a group of conservatives, you think hilldawg would have gotten those people cheering along with her?

Not sure why you explained that to me. That's my point. It's dumb to think not voting will have a positive impact. If it could, it already would have.

So Trumps scared to debate and Kamala is scared to talk to the media.

How either are qualifies to run the country?

Honestly, rickroll, you can **** off with this. You have no idea who I know, or how I grew up. (I've mentioned various times where I grew up. It wasn't where I live now.)

My life, especially before I became an independent adult, was very different than you imagine. You might consider that possibility before you start implying that people have lived sheltered lives. I'll leave it at that.

As for the car stuff, you are wildly off base. The only car I ever owned was an early 1980s model Chevy Malibu that I sold for $400 in 1994. As best I can remember, I don't think that I ever took that car into the shop because I couldn't afford to pay the mechanic. If the starter, alternator, water pump, etc., needed to be replaced, you would find me standing in line at Autozone. Fortunately, my car never threw a rod or had transmission problems that were beyond my capacity to fix. I sold the car when I did because I didn't feel like spending the time and money to replace the power steering pump, which was leaking like a sieve.

Fair but it looks like RR is right about Bernie. Lots of people went Bernie --> Trump in 2016.

Some did. That doesn't mean that Bernie would have outperformed HRC in a general election. In any case, whether rickroll is right or wrong about Bernie isn't what is irritating me at the moment.

You are dreaming .
What will happen is the person in power would actually say , no one voting anymore , let’s change the system by banning voting .
Will put someone WE deem adequate .

U don’t want a 2 system party ?
Just make a third one , a real one just not a one person party .
actually the Republican could now by distancing themselves from the maga .
Or people
Need to vote for someone that want to change many bad concept In American politics -> stop pretending giving money from corporations is free speech As if a corporations could hold a human opinion .
Probably the dummest law there is for democracy.

oh man, i thought you were aware all that stuff was schtick (much like the stuff in the iq thread which now i also worry you took seriously) - i'm genuinely sorry about offending you, i thought you knew it was all just part of a running gag and not genuine

i do stand by that bernie did not fit the stereotype of unwashed and unkempt person without anything practical to offer - that's the kind of liberal which gives the rest a bad name

he was well dressed, well put together, and if given a chance would fit in just fine at a hunting lodge in the ozarks

yeah i know but i'd rather do a protest vote than for something i genuinely want to be overthrown via revolution because i see no way of fixing and cleaning this up under the way it currently exists

you're also wildy off base about the viability of a 3rd party - you think jill stein chose to boycott the debate?

you think she was just lazy about getting on the ballot in only half the states?

the two parties ensure that no other party will ever be viable, this in turn ensures that no viable party/candidates ever emerge because nobody wants to waste their money, time or reputation on a quixotic quest

I obviously don't care about you and d2 trying to convince the world that I live on the UES, and I was actively participating in the IQ jokes, which I thought were funny.

I am perhaps too thin-skinned on the silver spoon stuff, and this sounds like a misunderstanding, so I'm happy to chalk it up as such and move on.

My views about Bernie's electability have nothing to with how he looks or dresses. He certainly doesn't come across as an aging hippie to me.

Idk - he treats politics like business. Business is much more cut throat if you **** up. Politics seems like you get a free pass and there is a certain amount or should be that you can get away with. Look at the head of the SS wanting to hold onto her job and not even being fired after that whacko took a shot at Trump.

ah you saw that before the edit, i did add an apology for that fwiw

fwiw i don't think we were convincing anyone, at least that was not my intention, and seeing how my stuff is received via the thread, if i convinced them of anything, it was the opposite of any claims i made about your domicile (or anything else apparently)

i'll lay off it and am sorry, didn't realize i'd taken it too far, please take it easy on me as I'm only 4th in the iq power rankings 😀

How it goes in bureaucracy, political appointments and business alike is often "You will quit, or we will fire you". After that it just becomes about what you want on your resume or people to see when they google your name.