2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
Correct... wealth for the few. That's why we have a rapidly shrinking middle class.
My grandparents immigrated w/ no money. Bought a home, car, and raised 4 kids on one car mechanics income. That story doesn't exist anymore, specifically because of conservative policies. Not because democrats want social safety nets. lol
If "the few" means 100m people out of 300m something then yes. That story still exists just with a different profession.
Being a good car mechanic in 1955 was harder than it is today to be a data analyst. Yoh are simply mistaking your grandfather profession as an easy one, which it never was, only a few could do it right, become financially independent with it and so on.
Be good at something that is valuable to others (which means, something that pays a lot, that what money means) and you can do the same today, as my dad did in the USA emigrating in 2005.
The rest doesn't deserve anything to begin with
If "the few" means 100m people out of 300m something then yes. That story still exists just with a different profession.
Being a good car mechanic in 1955 was harder than it is today to be a data analyst. Yoh are simply mistaking your grandfather profession as an easy one, which it never was, only a few could do it right, become financially independent with it and so on.
Be good at something that is valuable to others (which means, something that pays a lot, that what money means) and you can do t
bingo - being a car mechanic then was the equivalent of being a python coder today - of which we have countless stories of immigrants coming the us, finding work with google and making 300k a year whereas they would have been fortunate to make 30k a year doing the same thing back in bangalore
Let's just stick to the arguments. If you can't refute them, then just read along.
As far as deep state. I obviously wasn't talking about the very first time it was used, but more about who in America pushed this conspiracy? It was think tank driven and people like Bannon, Alex Jones, etc... pushed this conspiracy across right wing media outlets.
Why is it important to understand? Because the end goal of this deep state conspiracy is to overthrow the US government, because there's too many current bad actors in this deep state to save it via democracy. The only way to save America, ironically, is to destroy democracy itself. This isn't even a new conspiracy. America went through this exact same thing in 1940 in the America First movement. Same language, same "deep state", which was labeled as a Jewish cabal that pulled the strings of government. The Christian right teamed up w/ Neo nazi's to attempt a coup.
Who owns these think tanks that pushed these deep state conspiracies to their right wing media outlets? It's the who's who of the conservative billionaire class.
And this is why I said originally, billionaires don't like democracy (again not all of them), but definitely conservative billionaires do not. That's why they cooked up this scheme of the deep state.
bingo - being a car mechanic then was the equivalent of being a python coder today - of which we have countless stories of immigrants coming the us, finding work with google and making 300k a year whereas they would have been fortunate to make 30k a year doing the same thing back in bangalore
DM
If "the few" means 100m people out of 300m something then yes. That story still exists just with a different profession.
Being a good car mechanic in 1955 was harder than it is today to be a data analyst. Yoh are simply mistaking your grandfather profession as an easy one, which it never was, only a few could do it right, become financially independent with it and so on.
Be good at something that is valuable to others (which means, something that pays a lot, that what money means) and you can do t
What? Ok, now that's good comedy. lol... sorry, I honestly can't stop laughing at this attempt at twisted logic.
I guess we need to define wealth, but most people would consider it as top ~5% of your economic ladder. But let's say it's top 10%... the top 10% in America hold about 70% of the total wealth in the country. To be in the top 10%, you'd need a net worth of $1.2 million or more.
Where I live, that's not very much.
Come on... that's such a disingenuous argument about auto mechanic's job. My grandfather was no genius, the point was it was a working class job, and he could buy a home, car and raise an entire family on one person's salary. He also had a pension, which they don't exist anymore.
There are PLENTY of similar working class jobs today, that require just as much "python level" coding as a car mechanics back then. I have to tell my uncle this one, because that's funny AH. He's owned a mechanic shop for over 30 years now. The cars today are infinitely more complicated than they were back then, to the point that most people take them to dealers.
But I don't want to digress... my point was, you can't raise a family on a single working class job anymore. That was common back then. Even grocery store clerks back then could raise a family on their wages. You going to tell me clerks back then didn't have scanners to scan food so it was that much more difficult?
lol... u guys are reaching... but I sincerely got a good laugh on this one so ty!
Let's just stick to the arguments. If you can't refute them, then just read along.
As far as deep state. I obviously wasn't talking about the very first time it was used, but more about who in America pushed this conspiracy? It was think tank driven and people like Bannon, Alex Jones, etc... pushed this conspiracy across right wing media outlets.
Why is it important to understand? Because the end goal of this deep state conspiracy is to overthrow the US government, because there's too many curren
Deep state is two different things.
It's the "intelligence services are running a parallel government" (I think this started with the rumors about FBI first director, then the x files show glorified the topic) which is a conspiracy theory kind of approach.
And it's the "unelected civil servants have their own systematic agenda which they push against political will for their own benefit". Public employees will first and foremost create the need for more of them, that's how they exist, survive and thrive. They will always be in favor of more government involvement in everything, they ARE the involvement.
The latter exists, is true, is a cancer for society and need a huge amount of counterweight from elected politicians. Otherwise the drift is to ever growing government (see Europe) and the stagnation it inevitably causes.
What? Ok, now that's good comedy. lol... sorry, I honestly can't stop laughing at this attempt at twisted logic.
I guess we need to define wealth, but most people would consider it as top ~5% of your economic ladder. But let's say it's top 10%... the top 10% in America hold about 70% of the total wealth in the country. To be in the top 10%, you'd need a net worth of $1.2 million or more.
Where I live, that's not very much.
Come on... that's such a disingenuous argument about auto mechanic's job. My
If you saved even moderately in the last 30 years and put it all in the sp500 with 0 effort you would have a higher pension (that adds to social security) than the definite benefits pensions of your grandparents.
It's like the easiest game of all, all it needs is to save a bit and just trust the capitalists to do their own self interest, and vote accordingly.
Do you now see why being in favor of what helps the billionaires can help every one of us? Just out your ****ing money in the same stocks the billionaires own and win the game of life while they carry you.
The people with no savings or no strategic plan can die in the streets and we just need to get rid of them the cheapest way we can
Deep state is two different things.
It's the "intelligence services are running a parallel government" (I think this started with the rumors about FBI first director, then the x files show glorified the topic) which is a conspiracy theory kind of approach.
And it's the "unelected civil servants have their own systematic agenda which they push against political will for their own benefit". Public employees will first and foremost create the need for more of them, that's how they exist, survive and
You should google up on how the deep state became mainstream conspiracy theory by right-wingers in America. You may be surprised.
Do you agree that their reasoning is that democracy needs to be overthrown in order to save America? 43% of Americans currently believe in the deep state conspiracy.
Let's just stick to the arguments. If you can't refute them, then just read along.
As far as deep state. I obviously wasn't talking about the very first time it was used, but more about who in America pushed this conspiracy? It was think tank driven and people like Bannon, Alex Jones, etc... pushed this conspiracy across right wing media outlets.
Why is it important to understand? Because the end goal of this deep state conspiracy is to overthrow the US government, because there's too many curren
dude i have no idea why you're droning on about the deep state
roc and i agree on very little, we both agree you're dead wrong about your thesis and nobody else is jumping in to agree with you, the onus on you is absolutely to show your work because you're making a wild claim that's not backed up by reality and now you're just trying to shoehorn in a world where your idea is true when it's objectively not true
If you saved even moderately in the last 30 years and put it all in the sp500 with 0 effort you would have a higher pension (that adds to social security) than the definite benefits pensions of your grandparents.
It's like the easiest game of all, all it needs is to save a bit and just trust the capitalists to do their own self interest, and vote accordingly.
Do you now see why being in favor of what helps the billionaires can help every one of us? Just out your ****ing money in the same stocks th
Totally... I'd 100% be there with you except...
... I care about the environment, poor people, and my fellow man in general. That seems like a pretty self-centered world view honestly. I'm sure you're an Ayn Rand fan as well, correct?
I don't disagree about stock vs pension. I've made this point in here fairly recently as you know. My primary point was that employeers aren't required to take care of their workers retirements anymore, not about which way to do that was best.
dude i have no idea why you're droning on about the deep state
roc and i agree on very little, we both agree you're dead wrong about your thesis and nobody else is jumping in to agree with you, the onus on you is absolutely to show your work because you're making a wild claim that's not backed up by reality and now you're just trying to shoehorn in a world where your idea is true when it's objectively not true
Well... I just put the reasoning in the post you quoted. What don't you understand?
You should google up on how the deep state became mainstream conspiracy theory by right-wingers in America. You may be surprised.
Do you agree that their reasoning is that democracy needs to be overthrown in order to save America? 43% of Americans currently believe in the deep state conspiracy.
Deep state were the people employed by the federal government which didn't faithfully execute all legal orders by the trump admin as it is their duty to do (or should be), when trump was president.
The anti democratic (anti- elected representatives will) pushback by the servants of the taxpayers and voters (federal employees) has to be eliminated forever. Every public employee has to obey all (legal) orders from elected representatives, without flinching, without ever trying to push for his own agenda which he shouldn't have as an unelected servant of the people.
And they should all be fire able at will by elected representatives, who are fire able at will every 2 (or more depending on the role) years by the sovereign entity: the people.
Totally... I'd 100% be there with you except...
... I care about the environment, poor people, and my fellow man in general. That seems like a pretty self-centered world view honestly. I'm sure you're an Ayn Rand fan as well, correct?
I don't disagree about stock vs pension. I've made this point in here fairly recently as you know. My primary point was that employeers aren't required to take care of their workers retirements anymore, not about which way to do that was best.
If you care about poor people use your money and find people who agree with you on who is poor and who needs help and help them. That's not something the state should be a part of at all.
Plenty of people will agree with you and you can do a lot of good, and quickly change course if something doesn't work (unlike the state, whose projects
Aren't subjected to constant competition of ideas and the possibility funding will dry up at any time if mistakes are made).
Making employers responsible for retirement doesn't allow people to change jobs frequently which is absolutely indispensable to match demand and supply of skills and the dynamics of an ever changing economy.
Deep state were the people employed by the federal government which didn't faithfully execute all legal orders by the trump admin as it is their duty to do (or should be), when trump was president.
The anti democratic (anti- elected representatives will) pushback by the servants of the taxpayers and voters (federal employees) has to be eliminated forever. Every public employee has to obey all (legal) orders from elected representatives, without flinching, without ever trying to push for his own a
You're missing the point. The deep state is not redeemable, according to right-wingers in America. The only solution is to destroy all institutions, and in order to do that you must get rid of democracy, because democracy will only continue to vote to maintain itself.
Again... going back to the original point, and I should revise this slightly: Conservative billionaires do not want democracy in America.
Conservative billionaire think tanks came up w/ the deep state conspiracy. They spread it across their media infrastructure for 15+ years. Their solution to solving the deep state is to destroy democracy in America, and from the ashes build a new set of institutions.
I wonder who those institutions will benefit and beholden to?
You're missing the point. The deep state is not redeemable, according to right-wingers in America. The only solution is to destroy all institutions, and in order to do that you must get rid of democracy, because democracy will only continue to vote to maintain itself.
Again... going back to the original point, and I should revise this slightly: Conservative billionaires do not want democracy in America.
Conservative billionaire think tanks came up w/ the deep state conspiracy. They spread it acro
Actually the proposed solution is to fire them.
And if your idea of democracy requires any agency that didn't exist in 1905... I don't know what to tell you but it was a democracy even before the DoE, the EPA, and so on existed and had any power.
Billionaires want a democracy that has limited scopes in it's powers (or a constitutional democracy which is forbidden to do a lot of stuff).
Like I do.
You want the dictatorship of the majority, 51% vote to sequester all wealth of the rich and they should be allowed to.
Billionaires are good at the game of life because they create conditions that don't benefit themselves alone, rather a sufficient amount of poorer, smart people who can benefit with them.
The whole idea in the game of life is being on the tail of the most successful people who shape society and benefit from it. That's true in all societies. In capitalism it's easier than in other societies if you are smart, you have a wider range of activities that will work and the constant numerical check of money to keep you going into the right direction.
No society will ever please the masses, they will always live in a perpetual state of insatisfaction, because what truly satisfies people is winning status games and only a few, definitionally, can at any given time.
If you care about poor people use your money and find people who agree with you on who is poor and who needs help and help them. That's not something the state should be a part of at all.
Plenty of people will agree with you and you can do a lot of good, and quickly change course if something doesn't work (unlike the state, whose projects
Aren't subjected to constant competition of ideas and the possibility funding will dry up at any time if mistakes are made).
Making employers responsible for reti
Ya, I get it... make it somebody else's problem. Just so you don't have to deal w/ it.
What's your solution? Because you need some solution, if only for your own benefit, right?
That's nonsense about pensions. You're evading the point, and this is getting tiresome. The point is, pensions, stocks, a real 401k plan, whatever it is, employers 100% should play a key role in their workers retirements.
Ya, I get it... make it somebody else's problem. Just so you don't have to deal w/ it.
What's your solution? Because you need some solution, if only for your own benefit, right?
That's nonsense about pensions. You're evading the point, and this is getting tiresome. The point is, pensions, stocks, a real 401k plan, whatever it is, employers 100% should play a key role in their workers retirements.
If you want to mandate matching contributions to 401k up to a cap I can be for it if you give something in exchange (like abolishing all DEI).
Btw employers already have to pay 6% of your gross salary toward your social security (with a cap).
What's my solution to the poors? Keeping an active society that benefits people who want to try be useful for others (=make money), that's it. If a poor person becomes a problem for others with violence we get rid of him swiftly and with no mercy, that's the solution.
Far cheaper than keeping him content for decades.
Fox News hosts are caught in a major lie.
Laura Loomer continues her racist and insane rant about Kamala Harris,
an affair with Donald Trump, women sleeping around to get ahead and more.
i'm not dealing with your conjecture over conspiracy theories - that's bonkers
why don't you deal with the fact that less than an overwhelming majority of the richest people in the world are from democracies, that our founding fathers were all insanely wealthy people, that our politicians are all insanely wealthy people, that they are unable to run for office without the aid and support of insanely wealthy people
how if you go to any university, library, hospital, museum, etc you're going to see the names of extremely wealthy people who had so much excess money they just f it i'm going to build a new wing for my local hospital or a new science building for my college etc - you don't get that in the rest of the world and it's not because non-americans are not charitable, it's because non-americans don't have that kind of excess wealth where they can just casually throw it around like that
Actually the proposed solution is to fire them.
And if your idea of democracy requires any agency that didn't exist in 1905... I don't know what to tell you but it was a democracy even before the DoE, the EPA, and so on existed and had any power.
Billionaires want a democracy that has limited scopes in it's powers (or a constitutional democracy which is forbidden to do a lot of stuff).
Like I do.
You want the dictatorship of the majority, 51% vote to sequester all wealth of the rich and they should
lol... you never fail to deliver. You want to tell me what else I think?
So democracies can't be democracies if they add more agencies for an ever evolving world? Like say we invent this new thing where you can have a camera and computer right in the palm of your hand. Something that couldn't have been remotely serious before 1900. We shouldn't create new divisions in the FCC to cover handling these new inventions? What about AI? We should just lean on old institutions only to handle AI security?
Since you asked... no, I don't want a dictatorship (man you guys are so binary in your thinking all the time). I want a social democracy where people have economic opportunity no matter where they started. I want a clean environment that is safe for my kids and grandkids. I want social safety nets for when people have major falls in their life (hey, even the hypocrite Ayn Rand wanted these). I want experts in key areas making decisions about health, technology, the environment, and security. I want democratically elected leaders to listen to those experts, and their constituents before enacting laws, and not just signing new bills from corporate lobbying firms like ALEC.
i'm not dealing with your conjecture over conspiracy theories - that's bonkers
why don't you deal with the fact that less than an overwhelming majority of the richest people in the world are from democracies, that our founding fathers were all insanely wealthy people, that our politicians are all insanely wealthy people, that they are unable to run for office without the aid and support of insanely wealthy people
how if you go to any university, library, hospital, museum, etc you're going to see t
He prefers countries that got poorer because the state did things, hospitals are breaking down, service is horrible, waiting times are in the months for basic procedures, but at least it's all truly public, the state did it.
lol... you never fail to deliver. You want to tell me what else I think?
So democracies can't be democracies if they add more agencies for an ever evolving world? Like say we invent this new thing where you can have a camera and computer right in the palm of your hand. Something that couldn't have been remotely serious before 1900. We shouldn't create new divisions in the FCC to cover handling these new inventions? What about AI? We should just lean on old institutions only to handle AI security?
Democracies cease to be when actual power doesn't change hands with elections.
You want "experts" making decisions for us, I never want to. Ever. I want experts to suggest and people who have to justify their choices with voters to make ALL decisions that affect citizens.
All, including the tiniest. Non elected people should never have any power at all and it should be illegal to delegate any to them.
I want in general as few decision taken for everyone as possible, and it most cases it means none.
What's the proper regulation for cellphones? Nothing at all. Nada. Keep your ****ing hands away. Don't even think to decide anything. Same for AI.
Let us live, just leave us alone, not only we don't need you, you are the source of basically every solvable problem.
