2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
Trump’s message for 6 years is that the Dems are socialist ****heads who are going to force you to get sex changes during 3rd grade in your school etc etc etc basically stirring up violent tendencies to SAVE YOUR COUNTRY
Vance, for the first time since being named the running mate, is speaking like an adult. And for the first time since being named running mate seems comfortable and human speaking. And he’s doing so ignoring the MAGA imbeciliry that the name brand people are willing t
can you imagine a world in which MAGAheads don't vote for trump because his VP won by being concilatory? MAGAs speak only in terms of winning/losing. argument could be made vance is playing for undecideds/independents. i can't comprehend how a vance debate victory results in reduced trump chances or kibosh on vance '28.
that said, please god no vance '28.
Walz completely flubbed the 1/6 democracy discussion, jesus. He took what was easily the Democrats' biggest strength and somehow let Vance reframe the narrative about freedom of speech and Facebook. He didn't directly challenge any of Vance's ridiculously-misleading reframes about Trump's invoplvement in undermining the results of the election.
This debate was just boring. The only thing anyone remembers from the last VP debate was a fly landing on Pence. Don't think anything will be remembered from this.
Vance has shown tonight he isn’t comfortable pretending he’s some MAGA disphit and understands that demonizing the other side of the aisle isn’t how the country progresses. Whether it’s a one night only thing it’s a fascinating glimpse, and it’s in stark contrast to what Trump and the MAGAts believe, which hurts the MAGA brand
I really, really, really disagree with the bolded. He's entirely comfortable with it. He just realizes that this isn't the right venue.
To be clear, I don't believe that Vance is authentically MAGA. But at this point, I don't believe he is authentically anti-MAGA either. He is simply a glib opportunist who is willing to say whatever he thinks will play best in the moment.
I really, really, really disagree with the bolded. He's entirely comfortable with it. He just realizes that this isn't the right venue.
To be clear, I don't believe that Vance is authentically MAGA. But at this point, I don't believe he is authentically anti-MAGA either. He is simply a glib opportunist who is willing to say whatever he thinks will play best in the moment.
I’ve seen enough of Vance’s stump speeches to see he is playing a role and doing it poorly, robotic and deeply uncomfortable. I assumed that was just him until today
To be clear I’m not saying Vance for president and won’t be voting for him as some makebelieve moderate in 4 years if trump loses in November, but this is night and day from what he’s been since the RNC
Short of Walz crapping himself on stage and saying he will rape kids, then if you are a maga watching this you should think Walz did well. That’s the expectations you all set on social media so why are you reevaluating it for the debate?
Dems for the most part have thought Vance will do decent in the debate, and he has done. We expected Walz to do relatively worse than he has done, actually he did quite serviceable.
From that point of view, Dem expectations were moderate, and in line with what actually has happened.
The only thing I wonder is what the political moderates expected, if anything. If I had to guess? For them they were both ok and it didn’t sway you to either side.
can you imagine a world in which MAGAheads don't vote for trump because his VP won by being concilatory? MAGAs speak only in terms of winning/losing. argument could be made vance is playing for undecideds/independents. i can't comprehend how a vance debate victory results in reduced trump chances or kibosh on vance '28.
that said, please god no vance '28.
I don’t believe for a second Vance pulled moderate voters with his performance today, it’s impossible to not have an opinion on a guy who has been the lead story for the last ****ing decade by way of sheer exhaustion. Doesn’t mean I can’t be curiously impressed by his performance
I do think if anyone won the day it’s Walz. Nobody expected him to be an overwhelming orator, he was just a golly gee shucks guy who flyover state voters could relate to who didn’t **** himself on the stage and held himself well (or as well as could be expected) against a guy who knows what he’s doing
I really, really, really disagree with the bolded. He's entirely comfortable with it. He just realizes that this isn't the right venue.
To be clear, I don't believe that Vance is authentically MAGA. But at this point, I don't believe he is authentically anti-MAGA either. He is simply a glib opportunist who is willing to say whatever he thinks will play best in the moment.
Yeah, Vance is doing what he thinks is best to win the Presidency in 2028
If i was on the harris campaign id pull every trick to prevent a vp debate - not because i think walz isnt capable, but that a neutral debate boosts trump. There is no upside for dems here after the last drbate unless its a home run. But it would also be a horseshit move to pull because the people should have the opp to listen to the VPs
Meh. Lets be honest. No one that watches a VP debate is going to be voting for Trump anyways.
Worst case scenario Vance does well and it is neutral. And best case scenario Dems get some Vance sound bytes to work with for propaganda purposes.
am I watching a different debate from everyone else? why is the consensus that Walz is doing bad?
Walz's closing was weak and seemingly unrehearsed. This was the time for a tight, memorized message with no extemporizing.
Vance's closing was much better but could've have been even more cutting.
Overall an enjoyable debate IMO.
I'd call it close enough to not matter.
Vance will be judged by the media to have "won", mainly because he is a more polished speaker and didn't go full MAGA (which the media mostly hates). But Walz will be judged to have done fine. VP debates rarely move the needle and this one certainly will not.
am I watching a different debate from everyone else? why is the consensus that Walz is doing bad?
Their speaking styles and polish were night and day but I don’t think that hurts Walz cuz that’s just how he is and I don’t think he’s gonna get hit for that
If I’m gonna pick one thing Walz ‘lost’ on it was his response to the tienneman square double down question
What I got out of this debate was Vance clearly hates Donald Trump.
Trump’s entire political career and MAGA brand has basically been ‘I’m a lying idiot so I’m just going to insult you, lie about you and bully you into victory cuz that’s all I have’
Trump tried that against Kamabla in the most hateful, deceitful rhetorical debate by trump since his last debate
Vance and Walz chose to engage in an adult debate with mutual respect, which trump has not been willing to show any opponent or contrarian to him since his debate with Hillary where the moderator forced him to ‘say one nice thing about your opponent’ in the closing statements of i think the 2nd debate in 2016? It weakens trump’s doom and gloom and campaign by fear and hate
Vance basically sounded like a more polished Joe Manchin. Maybe it’s my bias towards thinking what counts as Democratic vs Republican thinking, but Vance sounded middle of the countryish and so did Walz. Maybe the best thing Vance accomplished here is giving people a sense that the media has been unfair to him, which might help going forward.
I agree with Rococo that generally I don’t this debate will move the needle. I think for the most part they both did what they had to do.
Vance will be judged by the media to have "won", mainly because he is a more polished speaker and didn't go full MAGA (which the media mostly hates). But Walz will be judged to have done fine. VP debates rarely move the needle and this one certainly will not.
Generally, I'd agree, but in this particular election, a well sounding Vance could lay well with some never trumpers or anyone who thinks that Vance is going to bring in some sort of stabilization to an 80 year old idiot being president. Who knows to what degree, but Trump should be very fortunate to have Vance right now.
You’re all underestimating what you just observed from Vance. I am no fan, but I can recognize in an enemy an aptitude for strategy, real time calculations under pressure, and shrewdness at avoiding error.
I’m concerned.
