4 hands same table
all 4 hands are at the same table with the stakes raising over the course of the night as players get deeper and bigger rolled players show up.
V1 plays a very unorthodox style. Maniac ranges but not maniac frequencies. He's a late 20s-early 30s WG who looks like he would be a nit, buttoned up, glasses, stacks his chips very tight and neat, plays like 20% VPIP but he shows up with completely random hands. Relevant HH, villain calls our 3bet, check calls/check calls/check jams and shows T4dd for a busted open ended straight draw on the 356r flop. The first time I played with him I thought he was a crusher then he showed the T4 hand and now I'm not sure. I'm not exactly sure how his style works. He has a lot of history with most players in this game and is definitely a "feel" player, exploits player tendencies. I think overall he is a winner but we hold over him. Our image is that we win hands against him and almost always are playing a strong range advantage vs his random BS he shows up with a lot. If he gets stacked he'll snap rebuy for the biggest stack or at least 200bb and play until the game ends.
V2 is 40s and has never played in this game before, looks like he just came from an office job, seems like a standard loose/passive rec who tilts when he's down. He's busted and rebought twice before the relevant hand.
V3 is a 20s-30s asian player, definitely a thinking player, takes the most time of any player for making decisions, winning player, likes to control the aggression, plays a snug range/frequencies but will triple barrel hands like AK, AQ to represent aces/kings/etc. Likes to double or triple up in a few hours and leave. Tonight he's brought 2 friends that are both bad to the game, this might be to satisfy the host because he has a history of playing TAG poker and then hit and running.
V4 is V3's friend and is pretty terrible at the game. Plays like a 2000s rec player limping in with 45o from UTG and calling an iso raise. Plays either loose/passive or maniac aggressive depending on if he's up or down and how much. Tonight he's stuck a lot and playing gunshy loose/passive with random moments where he triple barrels every hour or so. When he bluffs it's usually with a line and a hand combo that makes no sense at all. All of his bluffs have been getting called and he's tilted.
Hand 1
25/50 12k effective with a 100 button straddle from V1
V2 raises 300 UTG with 2700 stack, has just lost the previous hand, is visibly steaming
H 3bets 900 from the HJ with TT
V1 calls
V2 calls
Flop 8h7h3s
V2 donk jams 1800
H thinks for a bit, confirms how much V1 has behind, raises to 4000
V1 jams all in 11,000
H?
Hand 2
50/50/100
16k effective with V3
V1 now on H's direct right
V1 opens 300 from HJ
H 3bets 900 from CO with KJhh
V3 4bets 1800 from BB
V1 folds, H calls
Flop Kd6d8h
H checks, V3 cbets 1200
H calls
Turn Js
H checks, V3 bets 3000, H calls
River 8
H checks, V3 jams ~10k
H?
Hand 3
20k effective with V4
50/50/100 with the 100 on V4's BTN
V1 opens 300 from HJ
H 3bets AThh from CO to 900
V4 calls BTN
V3 calls BB
V1 calls
Flop Jh9h4
V3 checks, V1 checks, H bets 2200, V4 calls, fold fold
Turn 8 non-heart
H checks, V checks
River 2 non-heart
H?
Hand 4
15k effective
50/50/100 H in UTG straddle
V4 opens 400 btn
V3 calls BB
H 3bets 1500 with AdQd
Flop 7h7s6d
V3 checks
H bets 2500
V4 calls V3 calls
Turn Jd
H?
21 Replies
Nobody wants to read such long posts.
Post each hand separately. Post the four in a series, one after the other. Give only relevant V for each hand. Refer to the earlier hands. I’m looking forward to reading them.
I mean to be honest that other thread just makes me assume its all epic hero calls.
Hand 1: I think flop is a flat. Fold now.
Hand 2: It’s gross but you just gotta call. (Also, I assume villain is OTB, not in BB?)
Hand 3: I’m inclined to mostly check flop. I’d mostly bet river.
Kinda off-topic, but I’d keep an eye out for collusion when a reg is bringing friends who are playing nonsensically and then they’re both doing cold entry in 3bp shenanigans. Doesn’t seem to apply based on turn play, but just throwing that out there.
Hand 4: 3b bigger pre. Extremely disinclined to lead flop, esp this big. Can’t really go wrong OTT though imo
Kinda off-topic, but I’d keep an eye out for collusion when a reg is bringing friends who are playing nonsensically and then they’re both doing cold entry in 3bp shenanigans. Doesn’t seem to apply based on turn play, but just throwing that out there.
I was keeping an eye out for it but if it was a collusion attempt it was pretty poor since one of them lost about as much money as the other players at the table bought in for, maybe more I wasn’t keeping a running count.
i assume it's larp given he couldn't pay 80$ for pre ranges and like let's be real. no one playing high stakes is going to post hands here
is whatever but will echo what the other guy said. you're going to have better luck with responses if you post the hands in multiple threads
i assume it's larp given he couldn't pay 80$ for pre ranges and like let's be real. no one playing high stakes is going to post hands here
is whatever but will echo what the other guy said. you're going to have better luck with responses if you post the hands in multiple threads
I never even considered this possibility, but that would be wild. PugDolk is now the forum’s premier Nick Vertucci simp. I cant decide if this is evidence for or against your theory.
i assume it's larp given he couldn't pay 80$ for pre ranges and like let's be real. no one playing high stakes is going to post hands here
is whatever but will echo what the other guy said. you're going to have better luck with responses if you post the hands in multiple threads
I’m not paying 80 cents to solve a hand for somebody else ever lol. And without the solver in that hand I called correctly that it was bluff and suggested 99 as the combo (it was 88) so you can say only the solver ever matters but it doesn’t. If I wanted to just run piosolver I’d just run piosolver but I don’t I post on here, I post on other forums, I talk to a coach, I talk to other players that I run in the same circles as. Lots of people who played high stakes used to post on here.
youre so interested in improvement that you post hh's to a nearly dead forum predominately made up of weaker players at 1/50 of your stakes, but you're unwilling to spend less than a bb when multiple people tell you that you have glaring misconceptions that are easily proven?
youre so interested in improvement that you post hh's to a nearly dead forum predominately made up of weaker players at 1/50 of your stakes, but you're unwilling to spend less than a bb when multiple people tell you that you have glaring misconceptions that are easily proven?
This might blow your mind but I don’t really care what the solver says.
You can't use a solver in a game like this - so many people misuse solvers to the point where they're hindering their performance. On to the hands
H1 - I would just call the flop - raising to 4k really serves no purpose other than allowing the villains behind to play perfect. You're repping QQ+ and yet he jams over you - can't imagine calling here
H2 - Think I'm calling here.
H3 - not sure why you check the turn. Would keep barreling with great equity - put max pressure on Jx.
H4 - Think I'd jam the turn - your line looks super strong jamming 3 ways to rep the overpair. I do like the flop lead as well -
IMO you should do these in separate threads. Too daunting to reply to each hand.
Hand 1 I think just fold. I think a fair amount of their range has you crushed and a lot of it is going to be flipping or at a slight advantage with stuff like combo draws, 2 overs and FD, etc. And facing not one but 2 players. I don't know that I like raising here either. What do we hope to accomplish? The high equity draws and hands that have us crushed are likely just going to ship it. The hands that have ok equity vs us but not high equity overall for the board like KsQs are not going to call if we just call the shove from v1.
Hand 2 is sick because it's hard to know if v is the type of rec who is never 4betting with bluffs or with a hand like AKo. I would love to know that he had 4bet light before. With the little we have to go on in OP, I think we just sigh call and hope he can have AK. Even if he had no bluffs if he can have AK then we have a profitable call. I don't think folding is impossible, but we need to know he doesn't 4bet AKo.
Hand 3 I don't like going so big multiway on the flop. You have to get it through every player. I would go 1/4 pot or check. You can easily check call this hand. Turn I think check is fine as we have equity to check call. How wide does he cold call a 3b? I think he might have some busted straight draw / fd type hands we may have some showdown against. The question is, if you check, will he let you win by checking back a hand like KQ? Having hearts we unblock AJs, JTs and some busted flush draws. I think it is close between going 12k into 8k to get Jx to fold, going 5.5k to get TT, T9, T8 type hands to fold (and his busted draw hands thst we beat but might bluff us off), and giving up and hoping we get a chance to win at showdown. I kind of lean towards taking our showdown. I am a little worried we might get heroed by Jx f we go 12k and might get heroes by worse than Jx if we go smaller. But it is a tragedy if somehow we lose to AQo, AKo. I think you need to lean heavily on past showdowns from villain to figure out what the best course is here.
Hand 4 preflop size looks way to small. I would go 2k. 4x without the cold caller, 5x with the cold caller. Again I don't like the big flop size multiway. You have to get it through 2 players. Also, you want to go a size where they will raise off their strong hands. When you go large, they are more likely to slow play a hand like 87s. I think check call or shipping it are both viable. Occasionally you will be drawing dead when you ship it though, but I think you get a fair amount of folds from TT, 99, 88, 65s, and straight draws. Some equity vs the narrow range that calls the jam. A lot of the hands that are going to fold to jam in btn's range are going to check on the turn too and you will get to realize your equity vs them. So I imagine it's close.
Yes because I’m never playing on a table full of solvers because I don’t play online. I’m playing on tables full of players who are at best still worse than the average live no limit poster. So it actually ends up amounting to better output.
Hand 2 is sick because it's hard to know if v is the type of rec who is never 4betting with bluffs or with a hand like AKo. I would love to know that he had 4bet light before. With the little we have to go on in OP, I think we just sigh call and hope he can have AK. Even if he had no bluffs if he can have AK then we have a profitable call. I don't think folding is impossible, but we need to know he doesn't 4bet AKo.
He is definitely 4betting AK and sometimes AQ vs my 3bet
As other posters have already said: please try to post 1 hand per thread, it makes each thread so much easier to read.
Also, please include pot size on each strett, again for the sake of readability.
Disclaimer #1: I do not play this high ...
Disclaimer #2: I never play with btn straddle, so I'll skip H1 and H3.
H2
I probably fold pre to the 4bet from BB, although its size is obviously too small.
As played, it seems like a fairly standard call otr.
H4
Your 3bet size seems way too small; standard would be ~2000 , I guess
OTF, the pot is 4500, right? If you cbet AQ here, it means that you are c-betting range, or close to, therefore you want to bet smaller, like 1/4 to 1/3 pot. Otherwise, just check/evaluate with your hand.
As played, turn is a weird spot. Perhaps just ship it? Not really sure though
H2
I probably fold pre to the 4bet from BB, although its size is obviously too small.
As played, it seems like a fairly standard call otr.
Edit: I guess the 4bet was from the btn, not the bb, correct?
If so, then the size looks more reasonable, although still on the smaller side, and I'm even more inclined to fold pre.
Results:
Spoiler
Hand 1: We call, villain shows 62hh, V2 shows Q8, we get a ten turn and 8 river and scoop
Hand 2: We call and villain shows 88
Hand 3: We check and villain shows T9o
Hand 4: We ship, BTN folds instantly, other villain tanks for a very long time, says I have two pair and don’t know what to do now, folds. I think he laid down 99 or something similar.
Hand 2:
Spoiler
This hand stung particularly because I discounted 88 from his range completely and his line didn't make sense. Obviously it's just shoving all-in with the nuts in retrospect but I didn't consider it even a possibility. If anyone should have the 8 of diamonds it feels like it should be favored towards our range. Of course when he has both 8s that doesn't really matter. It seemed like the line was repping AA, maybe specifically A8dd (maybe) and bluffs and I decided when he bluffs river here he isn't constructing his ranges well enough on previous streets so he just shows up here with way too many bluffs for his AA to cover it. Even AA I think he would have tanked a little longer on the river because he'd have to consider at least for a little bit that I have the 8 of diamonds since it makes sense to play that this way. Even with KTs and KQ I think it's pretty sick so I don't hate calling KJ because we block both KK and JJ. I do think he barrels off with some bluffs the same way.
