Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
30595 Replies
These are the rules posted in the OP.
They have not changed.
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster ma
disappointing that it is no longer permissible to repeat hamas' proudly stated goals itt, presumably to protect the hamas supporters from facing reality
Whatever you need to tell yourself to get through the day, Boids 👍
At some point Western leftists are going to have to come to terms with the reality that destruction of Israel is completely integrated into the ideology of the people Israel is fighting, at the personal and organizational level. And there is no amount of appeasement that will alter this. Iran and its Arab partners need a different leadership with a different vision of the world, and until this happens nothing is going to appreciably get better.
And I personally dont think that if Israel just turns the other cheek long enough, than Hamas, the IRI and its proxies are going to moderate. Steel manning the beliefs of people like Chez and Bubbles, it seems this is what they think Israel should do and what will happen in response. But I see nothing to suggest this likely.
At some point Western leftists are going to have to come to terms with the reality that destruction of Israel is completely integrated into the ideology of the people Israel is fighting, at the personal and organizational level. And there is no amount of appeasement that will alter this. Iran and its Arab partners need a different leadership with a different vision of the world, and until this happens nothing is going to appreciably get better.
That's step 10. Step 1 is coming to the realization that they are team Dan Bilzerian.
And I personally dont think that if Israel just turns the other cheek long enough, than Hamas, the IRI and its proxies are going to moderate.
those groups tell anyone who will listen that the destruction of israel and the liquidation of the jews is their number one foreign policy goal
so, yes
How was WW1 and WW2 won by the allies? By killing enemies and bombing and destroying industries, infrastructure, most of the economy and, why not, entire cities, til the other side surrendered.
If the enemies of Israel have no economic development, don't care that much about their own little infrastructure, and would rather die than give up and surrender, and assuming mass killing 100% of those enemies is impossible, Israel can't win this war, no matter what they do or how many people they can kill.
Of all the wars against terrorism that America fought, how many of them were clear victories?
If you're in the thread all the time maybe it's not so bad, but coming to the thread and finding out that everything interesting has been removed sucks. It only protects the people making offensive statements to erase what they said. So wrong headed. Absolutely no benefit.
i reckon that the number of terrorists who would rather die than give up is a lot lower than is assumed, and there is a natural diminution of such attitudes during wartime as the relevant people proceed with their suicide missions
If you're in the thread all the time maybe it's not so bad, but coming to the thread and finding out that everything interesting has been removed sucks. It only protects the people making offensive statements to erase what they said. So wrong headed. Absolutely no benefit.
You missed a couple posts basically saying Islam the religion is the problem, and a couple posts likening the current humanitarian situaiton to the Holocaust, in intent and outcome. Nothing new under the sun.
also apparently you arent allowed to advocate that all Palestinians are released from the Israeli detention facilities that have been referred to by many human rights and press observers as torture prisons.
there is not one arab state with a functioning democracy and no other state where palestinians live in a democracy. there is a reason for that - Islam.
The Arab street craves democracy but they live under dictatorships. The Tunisia rebellion was democratic in nature. Iran had a democracy until the US smashed it and brought back the Shah. When in a democratic state, Arabs act democratically. See, for example, the Palestinian citizens of Israel.
You have never tried anything but brutality. The Iron Wall ideology was adopted by Labor certainly by the 1940s.
But the options you favor -- a Palestinian state or federation -- are moot. The brutal annexation is complete. You are going to be an ugly apartheid military state for generations. Maybe when the importance of oil passes from the scene you'll lose your U.S. daddy and a global boycott can force an end to apartheid.
but option 1 and 2 are non starters for the palestinians without addressing the 2 other major issues - jerusalem and the "refugees". what is your stance on those subjects?
The holy area of old Jerusalem should be under international control. At a minimum, refugees (Why scare quotes? You a Nakba denier?) should get full compensation.
the mod jonathan ogdens for you all day. stop complaining and show some gratitude
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
2+2 Rules
Posting guidelines for Politics and Society
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
Am I correct in interpreting another unstated policy: Arabs may be accused of Holocaust 2.0 but Jews may not?
The US will send an antimissile system to Israel as well as a crew of US military personnel to operate the system.
In a statement released on Sunday, Pentagon press secretary Maj Gen Pat Ryder said:
At the direction of the President, Secretary Austin authorized the deployment of a Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) battery and associated crew of U.S. military personnel to Israel to help bolster Israel’s air defenses following Iran’s unprecedented attacks against Israel on April 13 and again on October 1.
The THAAD Battery will augment Israel’s integrated air defense system. This action underscores the United States’ ironclad commitment to the defense of Israel, and to defend Americans in Israel, from any further ballistic missile attacks by Iran. It is part of the broader adjustments the U.S. military has made in recent months, to support the defense of Israel and protect Americans from attacks by Iran and Iranian-aligned militias.”
Sunday’s announcement marks the third THAAD system to be deployed to the region. Following Hamas’s October 7 attacks on Israel, Joe Biden authorised the deployment of a THAAD battery to the region. In 2019, the US deployed a THAAD battery to Israel in 2019 for training and an integrated air defense exercise, the Pentagon said.
Am I correct in interpreting another unstated policy: Arabs may be accused of Holocaust 2.0 but Jews may not?
no
per victor's recent request, referring to the policy of hamas (+ other terrorist organisations) towards israel, being the destruction of israel and the subsequent forced deportation and/or liquidation of its jews, may no longer be referred to as holocaust 2.0
disappointing that it is no longer permissible to repeat hamas' proudly stated goals itt, presumably to protect the hamas supporters from facing reality
Disappointed that it is no longer permissible to post graphic images of children murdered in cold blood by the IDF, presumably to protect supporters of the rogue terrorist state known as Israel's government from facing reality.
Am I correct in interpreting another unstated policy: Arabs may be accused of Holocaust 2.0 but Jews may not?
No, that is not correct.
The Holocaust analogies are not appropriate for the thread from either side.
Victor is not allowed to call what’s happening in Gaza a “holocaust” the same way Boids is not allowed to continually refer to Palestinian self-determination as an attempt at “holocaust 2.0”. It’s not allowed from either side and only ever serves to inflame the thread.
Nakba 2.0 is more accurate, but maybe that can o' worms doesn't need to be opened.
^^^It's so much worse than the first one.
They attacked Israel back after 70 years of intermittent attacks on them, yes.
You have a problem with retaliation?
