Israel/Palestine thread

It's not that the things you say are not true, but there will never be peace as long as the Palestinians are controlled by the state of Israel without being citizens of Israel or living in refugee camps. The reason I made that post is that Kelhus' post completely ignored Palestinians and just presented the situation as people attacking Israel for no reason at all.

They want peace, but they need cheap condos.

Built on a bed of children's bones.

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/10/16/...

Ukraine doesn’t use child soldiers or human shields so that’s expected.

The NYT opinion piece is a lot less sturdy than I expected.

Micro, all things considered, look how eventually Israel made peace with Egypt, Jordan, and until Hezbollah, Lebanon. The blueprint is there. The template for land for peace with trustworthy actors, is there.

If you really don't believe that inside 10 years, there would be a state if radicalization stopped, then I dunno. It seems like a cynical take. History shows there is a willingness on every other border.

Israel famously had peace with Lebanon until Hezbollah he says.

There are extensive reports, linked to in this thread, that it is the IDF that is using human shields. They're making kids check tunnels for booby traps.

Please link to a report of Hamas using human shields.

And the kids killed in the very solid NYT report were targeted in the skulls.

A conversation with the doctor who wrote the Times piece:

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/10/16/...

Explain why. There was an editors note in the Times standing by the story that explains methodology. There were claims on Twitter that the x-rays printed by the times were fake. The Times replied that they had also validated pictures of the children's heads with gruesome wounds but declined to print.

Hamas and the Resistance dont even use conscription. Ukraine is literally kidnapping 10s of thousands of old men off the street to be used as meat shields.

Hama has done their share of kidnapping as well.

a fraction of what Israel has done.

It was testimony from a doctor who was there all of 2 weeks. The doctors surveyed could have obvious biases, and there’s no provided proof of anything they claimed. It was a few testimonies saying they saw children with bullet wounds. Those children could have been shot by Hamas or hit by ricochet. It’s a far cry from proving that the IDF has a systematic policy of sniping children.

flawless logic

But Hamas has caused a heck of a lot more damage and trouble for it's people.

So do you support the terrorists or neither side?

Thanks for saving me the replies Bill.

Like I said, it seems impossible that Nazis--a militarized majority-- believed they were defending themselves against Jews--a most unarmed minority.

But you see the process on full display here. Military snipers shoot 5 year olds through the head every day in self defense. (Or you can go the denial route, as some do with The Holocaust and are doing here).

Gentiles and a good many Jews all around the world only criticize Isreal because they have been brainwashed by the all powerful Hamas propaganda network. They control the media, you know.

This is, at least according to Aaron Beck, just a normal part of human psychology. For most people, they actually need to tell themselves theese stories to do things like execute kids.

It helps a lot to view your target as subhuman, as with the aid of a supremacist ideology, which is applies here too.

It will be interesting to see what kinds of stories people tell themselves in the future, when it will be harder to just deny it's happening.

I care about the Ukrainian lower class that is being sent to their deaths for no good reason

Did they provide proof attributing the bullets to IDF guns? I’d imagine that would be some of the methods and findings you would include in the piece.

Like I said, it’s less sturdy than I expected.

Hamas is sending people to their deaths for no good reason. They could surrender right now and end the war, but they would rather burn the country down than do it.

yes ofc they did.

Hamas is not sending civilians to their deaths. that is the work of the genocidal USA.

and no, they cannot surrender and end the "war". Israel has been murdering Palestinians, blockading them, stealing their resources, torturing them, and imprisoning them for decades. that will certainly not stop with a Hamas surrender.

If I was someone that actually had an interest in wanting this war to end, I wouldn’t be pretending that Hamas not surrendering after clearly being defeated was some noble pursuit of justice. I would be demanding that Hamas surrender. You can virtue signal about dead Palestinians but it sounds like you actually want the war to continue by any means necessary, because you think enough dead Palestinians would cause an eventual Hamas victory. That’s just what it sounds like, correct me if I’m wrong.

Can’t seem to find that part in the nyt piece.

the war will not end when Hamas surrenders. Israel will continue murdering children, stealing land, and torturing people to death.