2024 ELECTION THREAD

I thought that the conservative fantasy of our glorious system of federalism was for states to be free to do whatever they want.

see above - it's already been determined to be "necessary" as it's already happening - she's outright said that she's advocated for it and is the reason it is happening already and wants to take to the national level

i'm sure plenty of inmates would also be happier if we gave them penile implants as well, would you not be enjoying a higher quality of life today if uncle sam didn't upgrade your dick in your last stay here?

for inmates and detainees, it should be the bare minimum of what is required to save someone's life and their families should still receive the bill

Fine, but this isn't a distinction between Trump and Kamala afaik.

Also, you said my question about free treatment for appendicitis was a straw man. But now you have confirmed that you do indeed object to free treatment for appendicitis. So I guess it wasn't a straw man?

there will be doctors that deem this a necessity.

look at the settlement i posted before.

it was a request for 'medically necessary gender-affirming healthcare.'

"BOP also agreed to provide Ms. Iglesias with other medically necessary gender-affirming procedures, including permanent facial hair removal, facial-feminization surgery, and breast augmentation."

clearly Ms. Iglesias had doctor(s) opining this was medically necessary.

looks like there's still hope for you too as well 😀

She advocated for deeming it necessary or she advocated for providing it to inmates once it was deemed necessary?

You understand the difference between the following positions, right?

- I advocate for providing all necessary medical care to inmates, which includes gender transition care if it is deemed medically necessary.
- I advocate for providing gender transition care to inmates, which I deem to be medically necessary care.

I edited my post to which you responded to clarify I was asking who deems it medically necessary, and I've asked you this question in different ways at least 3 times now. You just keep responding "Kamala supports it" but you're not answering the question that I actually asked.

Only in MAGA's imaginations do the non-Fox news outlets you listed represent state-run media like Fox does.

I didn't mean "fine, I agree with you."

Or maybe just explain yourself in a way that other people can understand what you're talking about on the first go-round?

Ok, so it wasn't Kamala or her policy that deemed it medically necessary, at least not in this case.

I don't think a politician saying "inmates should be provided with medical care that is deemed medically necessary" is in and of itself a particularly controversial stance.

1 out of 100 doctors deem it a medical necessity. government should still pay?

it was a strawman

you were taking a life threatening event which is somewhat common and relatively easy thing to treat - basically the most obvious possible instance of stuff that should be treated

you knew quite clearly that nobody was ever talking about appendicitis

but i still stand by that committing a crime should never grant one free healthcare - it's a very tricky issue, having an inmate start out with debt once he gets out is probably only going to increase the rate of recidivism - so i would assume most of that debt should be forgiven

but we can absolutely draw the line on not giving d2 a dick implant despite that is clearly a medical necessity for him yet oddly don't use the same "tough **** you committed a crime and don't get rewarded with a free dick upgrade" mantra when he suddenly wants tits instead

is it going to be anything more than a rounding error in our budget? no

but it's still a crucial issue nonetheless because we need to put our feet down and stop that kind of insanity - you don't get rewarded with special treatment just because you committed a crime

our nightmare scenario is where people realize they are better off robbing a bank and getting caught in order to receive the healthcare they need and start doing that

we're essentially incentivizing crime

I have no idea what the process is for categorising a procedure as medically necessary, either in general or for a specific patient. That's what I've been asking about for the last dozen or so posts.

i'm aware

that was more about your acknowledgement of being able to see it from my perspective - which was something i was previously unsure you were capable of

d2-

who......

my wife is a retired physician and will suggest that it really boils down to INSURANCE COMPANIES making the "call"

Yes, I too envision this world where normal law-abiding citizens commit serious crimes just to go to prison for the benefits.

Whereas back in the real world, inmates regularly die in prison due to neglect by medical staff and guards. Prisons don't have A/C so in some areas elderly and frail prisoners regularly die of conditions related to heat exposure in the summer (cells get a lot hotter than it is outside due to their construction, and if you want to see medical, you better be bleeding or you're on a waiting list). It takes about a year of waiting to get a tooth pulled if you have an excruciating toothache, and extraction is the only treatment that dentist offers. I could go on.

What about in cases where the patient is uninsured, as I assume would be the case with a prison inmate?

I never understand what this sort of comment means. I obviously can understand the words that are coming out of your mouth. This isn't a craig problem.

100 years from now when they study our time, we're going to be looking at this where "presidential candidates actually campaigned on offering free cosmetic surgery to convicts and detainees that normally cost the general population a sum which could buy a small house"

it's going to be up there with lead pipes of rome, the dancing plague, the emu war, and tulip mania

Since you're actually now ignoring my questions and requests for clarification, I'm just gonna go ahead and call bullshit on this whole view. Sounds like someone has been jacking off to one too many Trump campaign ads and caught the MAGA brain worms.

Yes. I chose that medical condition because I wanted to test whether you actually believed in the broad proposition that you offered -- namely, that inmates should not receive free medical care of any sort. And you confirmed that you you do indeed object to free medical care of any sort for inmates. The only caveat you added was that you do not want to withhold medical care from inmates, at least in emergency situations like appendicitis. You just want to charge them after the fact.

I am curious whether this is your view on all prison services. Do you propose to charge prisoners for electricity, laundry services, food, room and board, etc.? If so, what behavior do you imagine that incentivizes for people who have just been released from prison. (Hint: It isn't working a straight job for wages that can be garnished.)

Were you seriously questioning whether I understood what your perspective was? I think that my posts illustrate that I understand perfectly well what you are saying.

Rickroll, did you know that the state pays for inmates to be fed, housed and clothed as well? I'm sure once your part time Target employee hears about this, he's going to be straight down the local bank branch with a sawn off.