Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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30757 Replies
This is big. Israel is trying to strangle economic development in the West Bank.
I found sources that said it was a form of psychological warfare, which is probably true, but none that analyzed from the perspective of whether they actually saved lives. both can be true at the same time.
might be that all of these things you say have happened actually happened, but it doesn’t indicate terrorism. we have to look at what is being targeted and how often these alleged bad practices are happening versus what you would call good practices.
and at least according to crossnerd dropping
A number of countries, including the US, the UK and Germany, have expressed serious concern about the move. UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy called it "totally wrong", while Unrwa's chief Philippe Lazzarini said it "will only deepen the suffering of Palestinians".
The US State Department said Unrwa played a "critical" role in distributing humanitarian aid in the Gaza Strip. Almost all of the enclave's population of more than two million people are dependent on aid and services from the agency.
Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that "Unrwa workers involved in terrorist activities against Israel must be held accountable", but added that "sustained humanitarian aid must remain available in Gaza".
'evil' seems in the ballpark
ohhh so nice of massa to let the Palestinians work and operate on the west bank as well..
The "Palestinians" love working for the Israelis. They get great pay and benefits. They are treated fairly. Palestinians line up to get into Israel to work. "Palestinians" would much prefer to work for Israelis than Arabs.
I'd love it if I had a pony. As it stands, the IDF has zero moral authority to order millions of people in a separate sovereign nation to forfeit their homes.
I'm glad we can all finally agree that Israel has seized land from Palestine.
They haven't seized land from Palestine because there is no Palestine. The land they will keep is the high ground. Those who occupied it before cannot be trusted to play nice. Some people can't have nice things.
The IDF can do whatever it wants and will do whatever it wants in an effort to keep Israel safe. Many peoples homes were forfeited on Oct 7th. Actions have consequences.
This is a start to getting a better understanding of what’s being alleged. I do appreciate they called out Lebanese war crimes as well in the article, so makes it feel less biased anyway. I also think it’s good that they noted that the areas being targeted are military assets.
One of my lingering questions is how good their surveillance of the specific targeted locations. Is it possible that they assessed people had moved far enough away from the target zone? I mean it’s not always about the amount of time between the warning and the strike but also about whether the evacuation had already happened.
Always in awe at how brave these people are. She keeps reporting when I'd be running away.
Israel said exactly when and where they were attacking. Journalists know if they stay away from terrorists (or resistance fighters if that is how you perceive them) and stay away from the areas Israel announces they are going to bomb, then there is little danger.
I would guess most "journalist" casualties are because the person in question was purposefully embedded with terrorists or terrorist themselves disguising themselves as a journalist.
FWIW, it assuredly is much more dangerous in Gaza than Lebanon to be a journalist. In Gaza the terrorists are embedded anywhere and everywhere; so at any point there is potential for being close to a strike.
In Lebanon, the terrorists are concentrated in specific areas; so keep a healthy distance and stay away from the specific areas Israel is announced they are bombing, and being a journalist (and really anyone in Lebanon) is moderately safe.
This is a start to getting a better understanding of what’s being alleged. I do appreciate they called out Lebanese war crimes as well in the article, so makes it feel less biased anyway. I also think it’s good that they noted that the areas being targeted are military assets.
One of my lingering questions is how good their surveillance of the specific targeted locations. Is it possible that they assessed people had moved far enough away from the target zone? I mean it’s not always about the amou
They have total surveillance and everyone is evacuated from the area when they do their announced strikes/demolitions of buildings and terror tunnels.
When it comes to surprise attacks on high value targets, there is a different calculus and some low level of collateral damage is deemed acceptable if the target is high enough value (eg. the strike on Nasrallah's bunker).
They haven't seized land from Palestine because there is no Palestine. The land they will keep is the high ground.
So as I said, they're taking land. Of course all of the IDF apologists ITT insisted Israel would absolutely never do this a year ago. It's just nothing but a constant stream of easily-disproven lies.
90+ killed including over 20 children under 12 yrs old. just wake up to dead babies and go to bed with dead babies. Western values.
So as I said, they're taking land. Of course all of the IDF apologists ITT insisted Israel would absolutely never do this a year ago. It's just nothing but a constant stream of easily-disproven lies.
This is what happens when you declare destruction of your neighbor and constantly lose wars of aggression. Look at the borders of modern Germany compared to Prussia. Very similar to what happened to the Arabs attacking Israel, in the aims and outcome.
If anything Israel has been extremely reasonable giving land back. When the last Arab holdouts (Palestinians and Shiites in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, etc.) declare the Jihad is over, there will be land swaps as part of peace negotiations; but Israel should keep militarily strategic land.
Are you saying that they sometimes use the leaflets to purposely get innocents to move to a "safe zone" where they are more likely to get killed than if they stayed put?
Of course not. However, for the large part of this war Hamas was prohibiting civilians from leaving war zones. Now that they have lost much control, civilians are able to leave the war zones much easier.
Also, you do realize Israel isn't just dropping leaflets. They send warnings of when/where they will attack on social media, text messages and TV/radio. In totality, I dont know how useful the leaflets are relative to using modern technology to evacuate civilians.
IF you want to argue part of Israeli's strategy of moving people around is psychological, that is fine. I dont know if it is true, or not, but it is an argument. Victor's argument is nonsense of course.
Of course, pretty much everything the other side does also has a psychological component. That is how wars work. Which is why we should be working towards a future that isn't just going back to the pre 10/7 status quo, which just guarantees such outcomes. And leaving groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, UNRWA and UNIFIL in place with the same perverse incentive structures just guarantees nothing every gets better..
Historically, dropping leaflets etc isn’t meant to diminish civilian casualties; they’re designed to increase the psychological impact and decrease the international stigma of bombing civilian areas. It’s not what you think it is.
USA#1 invented that strategy. It’s meant to scare people with maximum effect while giving yourself the out to tell others “hey we did warn them!” It’s not meant to actually save them, unfortunately.
One of the worst takes ITT.
1. We not only drop leaflets, but also send direct massages, make calls to leaders of the community, send announcements by videos, post the evacuation orders in all media and more. we also inform the UN ahead of time so they can to help convene the massage to the population. choosing to focus on one of the means, is very telling.
2. we also provide safe corridors of passage, help elderly people and small kids to move to safe zones, provide defense to the population against Hamas operatives who try to prevent the civilian population from leaving and more.
3. we risk our own lives many times doing all this. Israeli soldiers have dies not once and not twice facilitating the safe passage of civilians.
be anti Israel as much as you want, but please dont spread lies, or partial information, which is sometimes worst than lies.
lol. The "safe passage of civilians" from their homes to refugee hovels that may or may not get bombed.
if hamas leaders enter a refugee camp, we will attack there. ofc we will try to make a precise attack as possible. but there is no safe hideouts for hamas leaders.
your miss contempt is noted and registered. we will take it under consideration.
--This story is pretty wild. In 2022 Iran kidnapped someone in Dubai who is a German citizen that has been living in the US since 2003; and executed him for "terrorism" after 2 years of custody and a "trial" where he didn't even get to defend himself.
