Moderation Questions
The last iteration of the moderation discussion thread was a complete disaster. Numerous attempts to keep it on topic failed, and it became a general discussion thread with almost no moderation related posts at all. And those that were posted were so buried in non-mod posts that it became a huge time drain on the mods to sort through them. Then, when off topic posts were deleted posters complained about that.
This led to the closing of the mod discussion thread, replaced by the post report/pm approach. This has filtered out lots of noise, but has resulted at times in the General Discussion Thread turning into a quasi-mod thread. This is not desirable, but going back to the old mod thread is also not a workable option.
Therefore, I have created this new moderation thread, but with a different purpose and ground rules than previous mod threads. The purpose of this thread is to provide a place for posters to pose questions to the mods about how policies are applied; to bring to the mods attention posts they think are inappropriate and reach the level of requiring mod action; and for mods to communicate to posters things like changes or clarifications to policies, bannings, etc.
Now let me tell you what this thread is NOT a place for. It is not for nonmoderation related posts, even if the discussion originates from a comment in in a mod related post. It is not for posters to post their opinions about other posters or whether a poster should be banned. It is not to rehash past grievances about mod decisions from months or years ago. The focus of this thread will be recent posts that require action now. Or questions about current policies and enforcement.
So basically, this is a thread to ask mods questions. Which means, pretty much that only mods should be answering those questions. If a poster asks why a particular post was deleted or allowed, only a mod can answer that. Everyone else who wants to jump in with their opinion or their mod war story needs to stay out of it. It just increases the noise to signal ratio and does nothing to answer the question.
Everyone needs to understand that this thread has very different rules than the old mod thread and any other thread. Any non-moderation post will be deleted on sight. Not moved to the appropriate thread, just deleted. So don't waste your time crafting a masterpiece post about wars or transgender issues or the presidential election and then post it in this thread. It will be gone. Also, this isnt a thread for general commentary about our mods performance. Posting "browser sucks as a mod" or any such posts that don't actually ask about a policy or request a mod action will be deleted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the moderation of this forum. But this thread isnt for complaining about mods. You are free to go to the ATF forum and make your concerns about modding in this forum there.
So with that intro, this thread is open for those who need to bring questions about mod policies or bring inappropriate posts to the mods attention. Again, it is NOT a thread for group discussions about other posters or for other posters to answer questions directed to mods.
We'll see how this goes. If you have what you feel is an open issue raised in the General Discussion Thread, please copy that post or otherwise reintroduce the issue here.
Thanks.
I thought they banned you from the original spinoff before they moved to UP. cant remember the name now. exiled or something?
Oh yeah. I think you are right about that. I didn't set that site up though - though I did help organize a lot of people to get there. What happened there was the admin locked everything when UP started to get people to move over. Much much later, like years, it was re-opened by the second splinter group with lots of people banned in preparation for their next site.
And yeah, exiledpolitics (named that because Mat kicked everyone out).
ahh ok. I just remember you being integral in starting that community and it felt really gross they would do that. but well, really it shows my idiocy to expect anything different from those people.
I think the impact of COVID on the division in the country is pretty wildly un-talked about. It was pretty radicalizing for a lot of people.
It's a major event sos tands out but it's all part of the negative feedback loop we're in. It's one of those inevitabilities that when the problems of polarisation manifest, people will blame the problem for causing the polarisation when ikt's all part and parcel of the same thing. trump is another example
We're ****ed unless we tackle polarisation, it's just a matter of the details for the history book on how democracy died. It require a real effort and it's not fun
It's a major event sos tands out but it's all part of the negative feedback loop we're in. It's one of those inevitabilities that when the problems of polarisation manifest, people will blame the problem for causing the polarisation when ikt's all part and parcel of the same thing. trump is another example
We're ****ed unless we tackle polarisation, it's just a matter of the details for the history book on how democracy died. It require a real effort and it's not fun
I think there were a lot of people who didn't care that much about politics before who either more or less thought that people refusing to get vaccines were responsible for mass murder on one side and people who more or less thought the shutdowns were completely intolerable usurping (dunno if that's the right word) of their freedom on the other. Many people who never really got riled about this stuff finding themselves very riled. And it didn't entirely follow party lines.
I think there were a lot of people who didn't care that much about politics before who either more or less thought that people refusing to get vaccines were responsible for mass murder on one side and people who more or less thought the shutdowns were completely intolerable usurping (dunno if that's the right word) of their freedom on the other. Many people who never really got riled about this stuff finding themselves very riled. And it didn't entirely follow party lines.
I dont disagree with that. It was a very hard to digest event even for a healthy system.
Generally reasonable people felt very strongly about some events and many of them got riled. Polarisation means that fewer will come back together/calm down and more will join the divide and become less reasonable. Then the next event comes along and the next and .... Were' heading towards two sides with an increasingly hollowed out valley between them. Democracy won't survive that. Maybe it shouldn't.
Not everyone should have to agree, or even be close, for democracy to work. Maybe they do have to, but if that's so, democracy can't really work unless there's a lot of some kind of manufactured consent or something which isn't all that democratic. People can't disagree and still vote on stuff? People are all just supposed to agree on things? Shrug. I think it is pretty hopeless.
That's right we have to be able to disagree without polarising. That's what democracy is about.
I do it. You do it (almost as much 😀). We're increasingly in the minority and it keeps getting harder.
Not everyone should have to agree, or even be close, for democracy to work. Maybe they do have to, but if that's so, democracy can't really work unless there's a lot of some kind of manufactured consent or something which isn't all that democratic. People can't disagree and still vote on stuff? People are all just supposed to agree on things? Shrug. I think it is pretty hopeless.
I don't think a society can function when the polarization is on foundational issues.
If I say education and healthcare are the cornerstones of our society and we have to be elite in both for a happy, healthy, and productive society and the retaliatory response is "doctors are money grubbing jewish sociopaths who want to conspire with trans teachers to perform unapproved transition surgeries on our brainwashed children while they are in schoool" ......
There is no path to compromise for a functioning society there.
It definitely seems like a large portion of the US population is too far gone to ever contribute to a functioning society again
I don't think a society can function when the polarization is on foundational issues.
If I say education and healthcare are the cornerstones of our society and we have to be elite in both for a happy, healthy, and productive society and the retaliatory response is "doctors are money grubbing jewish sociopaths who want to conspire with trans teachers to perform unapproved transition surgeries on our brainwashed children while they are in schoool" ......
There is no path to compromise for a functi
Instead of making one side a racist idiot how about:
A: I think education and healthcare are important and society functions best, is most efficient, fair, and just if everyone bands together and pays for and provides them collectively through the government.
B: I think education and healthcare are important, but individuals have different priorities and I think they should be in control of how their money is spent and I think government involvement is inefficient and by and large people would be better off if these things are handled by private markets combined with charity.
Can those two people live together in a democracy?
Sure. probably works best as a democracy.
but it requires us* actually voting for people seriously offering those policies, arguing for them and impementing them when the opportunity arises.
the 'two people' aren't fixed. The center moves.
*there's a big asymmetry. The 'us' has to do things. The right can do nothing because then the markets handle it.
A and B will never both get what they want at the same time though. I would say they are polarized on healthcare and education.
That's not obviously true because people aren't anywhere near as fixed as it suggests. More importantly some dynamic solution may well be better then everyone sharing the same view.
Even more importantly, why should one side get what it wants all the time? The right should try to move it rightwards and the left should try to move it leftwards. Much as I hate what thatcher did, in the end she wasn't the problem as much as the labour party becoming thatcherite rather than being left wing. If we keep fighting then over time we get progress and reality is a big winner in the long run.
It's not great. It aint close to utopia.
Instead of making one side a racist idiot how about:
A: I think education and healthcare are important and society functions best, is most efficient, fair, and just if everyone bands together and pays for and provides them collectively through the government.
B: I think education and healthcare are important, but individuals have different priorities and I think they should be in control of how their money is spent and I think government involvement is inefficient and by and large people would b
My example is how conversations go on twitter right now which unfortunately does represent a consequential portion of the US population. I also had that exact conversation with 2-3 people in the now locked Trans Visibility thread in this very forum.
Yes, I believe A and B can co-exist in a democracy. We have public/private schools and that seems to work fine. We could do that with healthcare if we scrapped medicare and neutered social security. The stripped value would be made up through more robust public education and health. Then people could still pursue the private option if they had the need or means.
My example is how conversations go on twitter right now which unfortunately does represent a consequential portion of the US population. I also had that exact conversation with 2-3 people in the now locked Trans Visibility thread in this very forum.
Yes, I believe A and B can co-exist in a democracy. We have public/private schools and that seems to work fine. We could do that with healthcare if we scrapped medicare and neutered social security. The stripped value would be made up through more
That's a compromise that could work, but my B doesn't like that their tax money is used for public schools and they are being asked to pay for both children if they want their kids to go to private school. A doesn't like the sound of scrapping medicare and neutering social security.
And not every issue can have a middle position. Point being, some people are just going to lose in a democracy. Either that works and people can live with the results or not. I don't know. But a functional democracy doesn't mean no polarization, or if it does, I think there's no hope for a functional democracy because people are just going to have diametrically opposed opinions.
Really, I don't think democracy working or not is so binary.
Here ya go, Luc.
The post by jjj is correct.
And it is the reason your "rope" is a LOT shorter than others.
Spoiler
Take it somewhere else if you are offended. 2+2 may not be your best avenue for presenting your manifesto.
I don’t love his posting either but I don’t think it’s right to call him a psychopath or a fascist that should be disposed of like garbage. If that is the opinion that the mods let be free on this site then you should just ban him to save the ridicule.
To be absolutely clear here I don’t apologize for a single word I said about playbig and I imagine I’ll say it again within the next week
The reality is every word he posts is an unfounded lie with zero basis in reality. If, as an example, pennsyvania has been completely rigged for kamala as he claims then there is no reason the guy who is claiming this as a metaphysical certainty should have bet every dollar he can on Harris at the +140 to take the state since it’s free money and it’s rigged
He hasn’t, he won’t, and the reason he won’t is because he knows he’s lying and just wants to be an unrepentant provocateur who knows he’s full of **** spreading conspiracy theories with no responsibility towards evidence or accountability yet I’m the one who gets my posts deleted calling that out and I’m the one who gets banned calling that out while he Ho Hum ‘did you see what they’re saying on rumble? Our country is ****ed’ people like this in general are just dangerous, toxic and quite frankly completely pointless to normal discourse and should be disregarded and ridiculed at every last turn, not treated like they’re some special snowflake who warrants respect
I stand by every last word I said even if it was deleted before I took a ban for *checks notes* demanding a ****ing liar put his money where his mouth is. I have no intention of stopping
Luciom already called migrants from Africa coming to Italy "garbage people". Everyone knows what he thinks about this. It's really stupid to save the audience here from reading whatever he types when it's clear enough what he thinks.
Please Luciom, say what you feel and if you get banned just make a new account and do whatever IP spoofing/VPN you need to do if necessary.
have you been to europe? i think you'd understand he's specifically talking about a group of people who are not identified so much as being african but rather identified as muggers and black market salesmen
it's kept on sheets so they can quickly pick it up if they see the cops and claim they are just carrying around their stuff
of everyone i know who's been mugged in europe it's been a moroccan or sub saharan african who did it each time - yes, locals have robbed americans, but it's pickpocket stuff and not violent crime where you wind up with a black eye or threatened with a knife
it's not a racial thing at all, it's an issue of poverty - having a population of young men who are all NEETS is never going to end well
of course people here are going to see it as a racial thing rather than a "this group is disproportionately responsible for crime" - couching everything in terms of race and racism ensures the problems will never be addressed and never go away
listen to norm
OMG a street market. Maybe you dont have them much in the US but they’re commonplace in Europe and a valuable part of the culture here, and a lot of them would have started like this.
Nice bad faith posting, but why would I expect anything else from you
The issue is Luciom’s uncareful blanket statements. In my experience, living in a large Northern European city, the African migrants are the least threatening people you will ever come across in public. I understand who ends up in Italy vs Germany is probably different but in my case I’ve found they’re almost universally with family, quiet, and friendly. Of course, poor young men with little or no prospects is a dangerous combination but that’s not representative of all African immigrants to Europe nor does it make even that subgroup de facto criminal or “garbage people”.
The times that I’ve felt genuinely uncomfortable around strangers it’s almost always been white Germans or Eastern Europeans, because they were aggressive drunks. The only time I’ve ever been assaulted by a stranger was here by a white guy.
lol, rick chiming in to remind us that African immigrants actually are violent muggers. With terrifying photos of street vendors as evidence. That's great.
