Moderation Questions
The last iteration of the moderation discussion thread was a complete disaster. Numerous attempts to keep it on topic failed, and it became a general discussion thread with almost no moderation related posts at all. And those that were posted were so buried in non-mod posts that it became a huge time drain on the mods to sort through them. Then, when off topic posts were deleted posters complained about that.
This led to the closing of the mod discussion thread, replaced by the post report/pm approach. This has filtered out lots of noise, but has resulted at times in the General Discussion Thread turning into a quasi-mod thread. This is not desirable, but going back to the old mod thread is also not a workable option.
Therefore, I have created this new moderation thread, but with a different purpose and ground rules than previous mod threads. The purpose of this thread is to provide a place for posters to pose questions to the mods about how policies are applied; to bring to the mods attention posts they think are inappropriate and reach the level of requiring mod action; and for mods to communicate to posters things like changes or clarifications to policies, bannings, etc.
Now let me tell you what this thread is NOT a place for. It is not for nonmoderation related posts, even if the discussion originates from a comment in in a mod related post. It is not for posters to post their opinions about other posters or whether a poster should be banned. It is not to rehash past grievances about mod decisions from months or years ago. The focus of this thread will be recent posts that require action now. Or questions about current policies and enforcement.
So basically, this is a thread to ask mods questions. Which means, pretty much that only mods should be answering those questions. If a poster asks why a particular post was deleted or allowed, only a mod can answer that. Everyone else who wants to jump in with their opinion or their mod war story needs to stay out of it. It just increases the noise to signal ratio and does nothing to answer the question.
Everyone needs to understand that this thread has very different rules than the old mod thread and any other thread. Any non-moderation post will be deleted on sight. Not moved to the appropriate thread, just deleted. So don't waste your time crafting a masterpiece post about wars or transgender issues or the presidential election and then post it in this thread. It will be gone. Also, this isnt a thread for general commentary about our mods performance. Posting "browser sucks as a mod" or any such posts that don't actually ask about a policy or request a mod action will be deleted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the moderation of this forum. But this thread isnt for complaining about mods. You are free to go to the ATF forum and make your concerns about modding in this forum there.
So with that intro, this thread is open for those who need to bring questions about mod policies or bring inappropriate posts to the mods attention. Again, it is NOT a thread for group discussions about other posters or for other posters to answer questions directed to mods.
We'll see how this goes. If you have what you feel is an open issue raised in the General Discussion Thread, please copy that post or otherwise reintroduce the issue here.
Thanks.
Oh thanks I just wasted an hour of my life looking at that old ****. BTW, I learned that republicans were very afraid of immigrants back in 2007.
I am like the most credulous person in the world and even I knew that guy was scamming from day 1.
BGP is just as argumentative and should (as others have suggested) use the friggin scroll wheel. He started out as a voice of clarity and reason in the I/P thread and I have told him that exactly...... but has a tough time scrolling past Victor. I prefer he chooses a different mountain to die on.
I believe you mean the Ukraine thread, not I/P. My high content stuff is still in there, unfortunately it's sandwiched between so much Russian propaganda (most recently used to bully a Ukrainian) that you must be unable to find it. As you mention, I tried posting better content for a long time, this current situation is the result of doing so in the environment this mod team has provided.
Past two years
I agree recent posts clearly cross the line.
Does this seem familiar? It is from January 8th, a month after I was told this:
If ganstaman or I decide that he crosses it, we will be ban him.
and almost a year before you told me he crosses the line pretty much every day. If you don't enforce the line then there is no line. If there is no line then the quality of content goes down, not up. When the line gets enforced for all posters except the person who has been crossing it nearly every day for years, then you're not moderating a subforum which is centered around enabling better content, you are moderating a zone for a specific poster to do as they please and dragging content down to their level.
Please read this post I made in January after several posters were going through pretty much the exact thing I'm going through now (they were not the first, and I doubt I'll be the last):
[https://thriveworks.com/help-with/ab...e...)
Reactive abuse is specifically defined as a manipulation tactic used by perpetrators of abuse to convince both the victim of abuse and others that they are the ones being abused. It occurs when the person being abused reacts strongly to the abuse they’re suffering, perhaps choosing to argue back or physically defend themselves from the person abusing them. Once they do this, the person abusing them uses it as an example or “proof” that they are actually being abused, and that the person being abused is actually to blame.
My recent PM to ganstaman:
Thanks for the PM and letting me know. I did not report several of the posts which definitely fall into this category as they were in places I know the mods were actively reading, including the mod thread.
I am currently not about to leave, although continually taking the high road is wearing on my patience, as is evident with the increased frequency of my insults towards him in the Ukraine thread. This is a side I do not like about myself.
[...]
There are many other ways in which I could post like Victor is allowed to do, and it is getting more and more difficult to avoid doing so despite knowing that it will absolutely be bad for the threads much as Victor's posts are. This is not even mentioning repeatedly mentioning false narratives used to dehumanize people, despite having them proven false and then providing no further evidence that they are true once they're disproven. It is textbook definition of gaslighting. I am 100% sure if Ukrainians were Jews the stuff that Victor posts would be deemed antisemitic or if they were Muslim then his views would be deemed as racist and genocidal.
One victim was definitely banned, maybe two.
Part of the reason they were banned was because they reacted instead of using the report function. Since I began posting here the report function has been useless. Mod warnings have been useless. Posting in this thread has been ignored and met with trolling until today. Suggesting they report instead of reacting is both unrealistic and ignoring the fact that the avenues you suggest they use have been neglected for some time, causing even greater frustration.
January!!! Do you think any of that rings true today? I'm asking this after a poster altered a quote in order to troll me and then watched as the three mods of this forum insult me (including for reporting) and spread lies about me abusing my mod powers as I am unable to respond because I have stopped posting as the mods demanded. I do not deny that my content has gone down in quality, what I am pointing out is that you have also created an environment which makes this inevitable. I do not deny, and have never denied, my own role in this. What I'm asking for is the mod team to consider if they played, and continue to play, a role in it.
Please give this serious thought instead of diverting the way the mod team here has continually done. I am pretty sure I have never suggested a permaban for Victor. I am not asking you to enforce rules on Victor only. I am not asking for special mod privilege. I am not gross. Your hands aren't tied because you have no way to punish posters. I haven't suggested you ban people for holding opinions because I disagree with them. I'm not asking that you declare a winner. You can critique my use of the report button at another time (even though you denied to last time I directly asked to go over my use of it). You can critique my posting at another time. You can call my complaints irritating some other time. You can criticize me over what I'm not willing to lighten up about some other time. You can criticize my lack of willpower to scroll past hate speech and trolling Ukrainians over their home being attacked another time.
These are all attempts to avoid what I am trying to address, and my posts are not mod issues anyways; they are poster issues which should be brought up with the poster when you recognize they are an issue, not when that poster brings up moderation issues. I would truly appreciate it if a mod deals with this in good faith for once. Every time I use the channels for bringing up moderation issues I am attacked, I am insulted, and all blame for this situation is placed on me while you all make yourselves out to be the victims. Please think about this: is the situation entirely my fault, or is some portion of it an extremely easy to predict outcome from years of being forced to post in this environment which you and the other mods have created?
Lighten up and scroll past
In my opinion there are some topics, issues and insults which are not "lighten up Francis" material. These include:
Telling a poster that their home was a valid military target after it has been explained that it was definitely not
Explaining why the peaceful people in communities similar to yours are valid military targets and raping and killing them in a terrorist attack was a great military success
Mocking the death of any of the people killed in such an attack
Saying they deserve what they got because of the group they belonged to
Dehumanizing people as Nazis
Dehumanizing people at all
Telling people they enjoy "blasting"/murdering/decapitating/etc babies
Spreading blatant Russian propaganda for their war, war crimes, and crimes against humanity
Making fun of people killed in war
Making fun of the loved ones of people killed in war
Calling posters racist
Telling someone they disgust you
Telling someone they are worse than a junkie hooker
Telling someone they enjoy killing the people they support
Mocking someone because they are concerned about the North Koreans poised to join the invasion of their home
Telling someone you find it funny their house and "servants" were stolen
Attempts to diminish war crimes and crimes against humanity
Calls to genocide (Not Victor)
Posting torture videos they like (Not Victor)
And there are many more which I could include here.
"Everyone can say whatever they want!", "everyone just lighten up and scroll past!", "I'm against moderating speech!" all sound great. In practice it leads to the above and most recently led to a poster being mocked by Russian propaganda memes used to vilify and demonize him and justify the invasion and genocide of his home because he wanted to discuss the North Koreans who are about take part in the invasion and genocide of his country. This is an issue where not only is "lighten up Francis" and "scroll past" not a reasonable approach, but it is the exact opposite of what should be done.
If the way you're going to handle this type of content is that you just tell people to "lighten up Francis" and scroll past while punishing those who don't, then it should not be a surprise that I'm joining the list of posters who failed in this environment and I won't be the last. These policies aren't fostering a productive subforum, they're orchestrating a 2p2 Squid Game.
Here are my two cents.
Victor is misanthropic. He hates BGP. He hates most posters here. He probably hates himself. He thinks that he loves the oppressed people of the world, but if a Palestinian refugee started posting on 2+2, he probably would end up hating that poster as well. Victor also is a habitual line-stepper. It is almost impossible to have a normal conversation with him because his main goal is to be inflammatory. It is much, much easier to have a substantive discussion with BG
Rococo, can I address your two cents here?
I see quotes from other people but not actual quotes from Victor posts. Hard to make a case for banning Victor when you aren't quoting anything he's posted.
I'm not making a case for banning Victor.
so what are you crying about then?
Excellent, thanks. I doubt I get to it today, but I will try to get it up soon.
I’ve never seen anyone so unwilling to take a ****ing hint.
Deal with our ruling or go away. Those are your choices.
As a side note, I do not think you have the personality to be a mod. I’m not sure how you achieved the role.
How many times can a person be told to get their own **** together and move on?
And you did ask us to ban Victor explicitly via PM. I just checked. 9/18 during your long, rude exchange with us. That’s all this entire thing has been about- your personal vendetta and throwing tantrum after tantrum since being told no.
You’re not being held to higher standards. I hold everyone else here to the standard of acting like an adult.
And if your threshold for being this aggravated is seeing some quote another poster you have on ignore then this really isn’t the forum for you.
Post that part of the message, you have permission.
I've gotten pretty pissed off, but I do not think I have ever said that.
Post that part of the message, you have permission.
I've gotten pretty pissed off, but I do not think I have ever said that.
[quote=Bluegrassplayer]I hope you two will rethink this eventually and ban him for his constant rulebreaking and consistently making this forum a worse place.[/quote]
After an extensive exchange ^
Does that say permaban?
Lol gtfo
Go away, BGP. Put him on ignore like a big boy or start suffering the consequences of a typical user who is this disruptive. I banned the last three.
For over a year I have suggested that since warnings don't work that he gets banned. If that doesn't improve things then he gets banned from specific threads. The closest I have ever come to suggesting a permaban is that if nothing gets him to post above "the line" then sure that has always been grounds for a permaban on this forum.
Suggestions are only said once.
As I have said, I am going away. What you are saying does not relate to the post addressed to King Spew beyond supplying evidence for this:
How many times do you have to be told that we will moderate Victor as we see fit?
How many times do you need to be told you are not a mod here? That your insistence on influencing the moderation here is an obnoxious overstep? That enough is enough?
