Israel/Palestine thread

What about being part of a militant group like Al-Qassam Brigade?

Maybe Israelis shouldn't be carrying out a genocide and various other Nazi tactics? Nah, it's not all the murder, the real problem is me saying mean words on the internet.

Oh, sure. All Cops Are Bastards. I'm sure there's always going to be a need for some type of policing force in any large society, so I'd happily settle for US police having their overwhelming budgets shaved and being heavily de-militarized in general. I'd also like it if they stop swaggering into gas stations and restaurants with their tactical vests and gun and all that ****. You can leave your murder weapons in your $80,000 tricked out Death Vehicle and act as a normal person for a minute.

1. 10/7 was an atrocity
2. 10/7 was a COMPLETELY INEVITABLE ATROCITY -- as I've said time and again, you can't abuse and oppress a population for decades on end without eventually incurring a violent response. No amount of Western moralizing or BOIDS-style zero content trolling will ever change that
3. Since a 10/7 style event was an inevitable response to the aforementioned society-wide abuse, I see no point in morally criticizing the attackers for engaging in the only resistance they have left
4. The paragliders WERE cool. Stay mad!

Cool. Do you have any theories as to why your fellow child killers are so pathologically obsessed with wearing women's panties?

Good. There's nothing brave about killing children in between getting domed by old weapons held by an army with 1/50th the funding of your own.

Even if you believe palestinians were "abused and oppressed for decades", which is completly objectively false and a totally made up narrative that you people invented to justify terrorism, 10 7 was completly EVITABLE anyway if only hamas wasn't a terror group.

South african blacks were actually abused and oppressed infinitely more than the palestinian ever could be, and they never did a 10 7 against south african whites, which proves 10 7 is still ENTIRELY EXCLUSIVELY Hamas (And all hamas supporters) fault and in no way justifiable by the "abused population" horrific "logic" of you guys.

So 3) is obscene beyond limits and reasons.

"i see no point in morally criticizing purported abused people who did something the vast majority of actual abused people in history never even thought of doing because it's immoral".

Your position is indefensible, and it's a position that materially supports and justifies terrorism.

Btw there is also the "detail" that even if you believe that was "resistance", it was very hard to think of some action that was more detrimental for palestinians than 10 7. Even in a purely "resistance" logic, 10 7 is utterly indefensible. It made "the palestinian cause" infinitely harder to achieve. And it caused a reaction which killed 20k+ civilians. So even if the logic is resistance and you 100% only care about palestinians, 10 7 was a huge mistake, and morally criticizable for the consequences.

lol

Which group saw more of its children murdered directly by the military of the occupying power? South African "blacks" or Palestinians in Occupied Palestine?

That simple rhetorical question destroys your moronic comparison. Great post otherwise, though, a real Lucy gem.

Yes, I do. They are mostly 18–19-year-old kids, who were thrown to a harsh war, in bad conditions, and they relive stress by many means, some of them childish and immature.
When I was an enlisted soldier, I used to take acid sometimes and throw eggs at other soldiers, to pass time. Kids do stupid things. It is wrong, but no more than a slap on the wrist way.

I fought in Lebanon twice, not exactly against kids. Also, Hamas and Hezbollah have brand new weapons, you have your facts totally wrong.
You can state your points without reducing to these ridiculous tantrums and hysteria, It hold the same merit.

BTW, as a "Marxist", I live on a kibbutz. aren't we brothers? 😉

Fair enough. Maybe we should stop throwing 18- and 19-year-old "kids" (young adults, actually, unlike the 5 year-olds your military has murdered en masse) into the meat grinder in a hopeless attempt to stop a thousand+ year old conflict?

Remind me, which side has nuclear weapons? And which side receives countless billions of dollars of funding from the most powerful military on the planet? Oh, ok.

Assad fell the moment Hezbollah did. Everyone with an understanding of regional dynamics, understands how/why. The Syrian troops were paid in useless lira/pound. Without Hezbollah to help Assad, the coup happened without needing to fire a shot in many towns.

It's actually incredible what Sinwar managed to achieve:

-Assad's Syria is gone. The TRUE tyrant of the region with actual death camps, is no more. Iran loses a true essential ally

-Hezbollah is liquidated. To the extent they were unable to save Assad when called on for help

-Hamas is nearly annihilated

-The entire air defence in Iran is gone. The massive paper tiger is revealed. And to the extent that Trump is seriously considering knocking out their nuclear capabilities in the best possible window there has been in a long time

-The Houthis are finding out

-Issa, Deif, Haniyeh, Nasrallah, and Sinwar himself, are all together in the after life

-Most of the smuggling tunnels are gone.

-4 years of Trump signals a shift in American policy in the Middle East (and we can expect the Saudis and Israelis to be part of a trilateral agreement soon)

-Iran has to seriously consider the chance that the people will overthrow the regime in the coming years

Oct 7th was our Pearl Harbor. And the Japanese found out.

Looks like Sinwar and the Axis found out too.

You replaced a murderous tyrant (which Assad definitely is) with...Al Queda, basically. A group of murderous would-be tyrants (whenever they find power). What a monumental victory for humanity!

And, you don't ACTUALLY think Iran's leadership will be deposed by youth activists, right? You don't ACTUALLY think such a thing won't take armed conflict and mass death, right? Please don't tell me that you are this naive. Actually, wait, I'd rather you be naive than thirsting for the 3rd World War that such steps in Iran might kick off...

Hezbollah is a colonial project of the IRI, that serves IRI interests. . Hezbollah has been able to have so much power and influence in Lebanon because after they destroyed the Lebanese economy they were the only ones with any money, provided by Iran. The golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. A true anti-colonialist as yourself should welcome Israel's attempts to liberate Lebanon from the IRI colonialists; and hope for their success.

I have spoken to a number of Lebanese expats in So Cal (mainly through playing poker with them) and I have never heard a good thing said about Hezbollah, or their IRI handlers.

Israel/The Jews did not replace Assad.

Assad murdered minimum 5 figure of his people, but probably 6. The death camps they're finding are near Nazi-level, and for once we can say that without getting banned. The crematoriums they're finding are nightmare fuel. The underground chambers where they locked up the living with the dead are among the craziest concepts since the Cambodian or Rwandan genocide. Just the stuff of horror movies. You want to talk genocide? That's how you do that.

Assad fell because he was one of the last true Hitler-level men on earth, and his own people wanted him gone. He had that coming, and for a long time. And the people who spent money and bullets to keep him in power just happen to be Israel's enemies. But that's as close as these groups are linked.

Assad had to go, and good riddance.

1. There are extremely few Marxists on 2p2. Me, and maybe Vic, and maybe one or two other left-ish posters who never talk about Marxism.
2. I'm only kind of a half-Marxist anyway. I like his work; extremely ahead of its time, but actual Marxist doctrine represents less than half of my political ideology.
3. You've really nailed me by getting me to admit that I do indeed participate in society. Insert that classic comic strip...
4. LOL at the idea that being a professional gambler and/or game-player could somehow only exist under a capitalist economy. Do you think there were no casinos in Soviet Russia? Or China? Those famous non-gambling Asians...

The are marxist ways to participate in society, like going to live in Venezuela or Cuba

The US/Israel did not replace the tyrant. Unfortunately western nations have ben wildly unsuccessful in building functional societies in the Muslim world, to the point it is widely agreed we should stop trying. All we can do is fight evil, and if another evil steps into the void, resist them too.

Israel has already announced they will not allow Hezbollah type Sunni militias to be active near the border, persecuting the people there. That is all they can do.

You can actually make a case that the second Hezbollah (unprovoked) attacked Israel on Oct 8th, Assad was on the clock. His mistake was not believing Israel would win.

Al Qaeda is allied with Israel and the West. the "only democracy in the Middle East" is perfectly fine with and probably even supports the mass sectarian violence and oppression that Jolani and his fundamentalist mercenaries are bringing. certainly they are happy to have stolen that mountain and are bragging about future ski slopes there.

They didn't seem too eager to let "their allies" get the Syrian weapons depots.

Two nations which are victims of US imperialism. Cuba has had to deal with this overwhelming embargo set upon them by the monsters to their north for like 60 years. You try forming a prosperous economy when the most powerful economy/MIC in history, who is also your geographical neighbor, is disallowing all of your international trade!

But anyway, if the US were to lift the aforementioned embargo (which has impoverished and indirectly killed thousands of innocent Cubans) and allow Cuba to be a fully free state, I'd happily consider living there.

true, I should have called them proxies. they are in no way independent. and similar to a low level drug dealer, they are only allowed one source.

Yo, one side being "evil" doesn't necessarily mean its opposing side is "good". Both Assad and the US/Israel proxy Al Queda offshoot have gallons of blood on their hands. You want to fight evil? Look in the goddamn mirror.

All the Communist countries outlawed gambling upon their creation. Every single one. In most of them gambling remained at various levels in underground as part of the previous culture, in spite of Communism. And over the years the more Communist countries accept their model is a uncompetitive failure and have liberalized, legalized gambling has been gradually reintroduced at various levels as part of general liberalization.

If you were a professional gambler following a Communist revolution, your two choices would be execution or fleeing to a capitalist society.

it is every Jewish mother's dream that her sons and daughters won't have to serve. It is a "promise" given by every generation to our kids. You will disagree with me about why the war wages on, but I can assure you we all would have given more than you would imagine having this resolved.

I really don’t think you understand the sacrifices both Israelis and Palestinians pay for this. People like you, with such a blind one-sided world view, have zero empathy, as real empathy is for all humans.

Hamas and Hezbollah are well funded by Iran and Qatar (and others). with the Huties, Iraqi militias, Iran and others, they are also way bigger, more armed and with more resources than us.
We have nuclear capabilities because we have smart resourceful people. Not because someone gave us this weapon. We have also better defense systems, for the same reasons.
You are trying to hold against us the fact that we are successful, trying to attribute it only to US support. I would like to remind you that we did very well even before the US support.

Assad, as compared to the US and Israel is like an angel. its actually insulting to see pro-West, pro-American, people complain about another country's prison and torture system.