Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
This kind of thing, among various other things, is why Zionism is considered a racist ideology. 'Those people never existed, so we can get rid of them and say nothing happened!'
Palestinians aren't a distinct ethnicity/race. They don't exist as a specific distinguished from all others, group of human beings with common ancestors not shared by any others.
They are just middle eastern Arabs, indistinguishable genetically, linguistically, religiously, culturally in general from people in Jordan and other countries.
This kind of thing, among various other things, is why Zionism is considered a racist ideology. 'Those people never existed, so we can get rid of them and say nothing happened!'
You are not wrong. But Palestinian ideology is actually much worse. It is an almost completely fictitious origin story mythology that completely denies IsraelÂ’s existence, or any honest assessment of how we got here.
IMO this is the biggest obstacle to any sort of resolution. After generations of propaganda and brainwashing, The entire purpose of current Palestinian identity is negation of Israel and a promise of generational endless resistance. It is not an identity centered around building a functional nation themselves, but if destroying one already there.
Regardless of IsraelÂ’s actions, it would take a tremendous amount of authoritarian control and reprogramming to turn Palestinian identity into anything productive or capable of peace.
And the world had no interest in facilitating this happening. So there is little reason for optimism.
If anything, I would say Israel leadership and society has become appropriately cynical Palestinian identity could ever reform into something workable alongside Israel under the current paradigm. So they are changing the paradigm at tremendous cost to their standing in the international community.
So now the real question is if something better is going to rise up from the ashes when Israel is done, and whether the juice is going to be worth the squeeze. I personally dont see how this works out, but I also understand the status quo was completely untenable.
Twitter bots are claiming that Jesus was a Palestinian. You can’t make this **** up lol.
Well, by this logic all the "Jews" the supposedly killed Jesus were also Palestinians. Seems like all the Christian Right anger at the killing of Jesus by Jews is historically misguided, and should all be directed at Palestinians. Correct?
In truth, that part of the world had several waves of migration in times of antiquity when it was semi-habitable. Then, because of climate change it became mostly uninhabitable and no one really lived there for hundreds of years.
Then, when the English and French came, and brought with them the requisite science and technology for people to actually live there; there was a massive flux of immigration; including what we now call Palestinians and Jews. And the Jews because they were much higher educated, with much more capital, and frankly worked harder and were more dedicated with a vision (Zionism) did pretty much all the heavy lifting transforming the desert into what Israel is today.
As I have said before, the only real group of people with any real historical ties to the land are Druze. But no one cares, because the Palestinian identity isn't about reality or real history. It is a founder myth justifying their own enthoreligious nationalist supremacy. And much worse than Zionism in this respect IMO, because it makes no allowances for the millions of Jews who have been living in Israel for 3+ generations.
Being born in Bethlehem 2000 years ago means he has anything in common with modern Palestinians is just lol. Pretty sure Jesus would not have been ok with killing a bunch of kids at a rave, or hiding behind kids while trying to kill Jews.
I think you’ll find that Jesus Christ was in fact a Christian and that Netanyahu would not care what Jesus thought about anything.
Being born in Bethlehem 2000 years ago means he has anything in common with modern Palestinians is just lol. Pretty sure Jesus would not have been ok with killing a bunch of kids at a rave, or hiding behind kids while trying to kill Jews.
wonder what he would think about burning people alive inside of hospitals
The history of Christianity begins with the ministry of Jesus, a Jewish teacher and healer who was crucified and died c. AD 30–33 in Jerusalem in the Roman province of Judea. Afterwards, his followers, a set of apocalyptic Jews, proclaimed him risen from the dead. Christianity began as a Jewish sect and remained so for centuries in some locations, diverging gradually from Judaism over doctrinal, social and historical differences. In spite of the persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire, the faith spread as a grassroots movement that became established by the third century both in and outside the empire. New Testament texts were written and church government was loosely organized in its first centuries, though the biblical canon did not become official until 382.
Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine. That makes Jesus a Palestinian Jew.
LOL. Like I said, this is a theocratic ethnonationalist founder MYTH used to justify denial of the existence of an 80 year old nation of 7 million+ people. The Palestinian MYTH is Apartheid, genocidal, theocratic, colonial, and the single greatest impediment to any peace.
It is 100x worse than Zionism, which at least acknowledges the existence of other peoples (many of whom are actually indigenous unlike most Palestinians), and acknowledges their right to live on the land in peace.
No one told Hamas to raid Israel, murder around 1000, take 200 hostages, and hold them for 1+ year, executing many. And they are free to give the hostages back at any time. And Hamas fired 2 rockets into Israel yesterday. They are still active and willing participants in the war they started over 1 year ago, and completely responsible for everything that has happened since 10/7.
That piction is the unfortunate consequences of choices made. Palestinian society and especially their leadership are brainwashed authoritarian religious fundamentalists who advocate for total war in service of their God, and are getting their wish.
And the international community, that has spent the last 80 years facilitating this disastrous situation, is even more to blame IMO.
And they are free to give the hostages back at any time.
they offered the hostages back for nothing on Oct 9th
Hamas fired 2 rockets into Israel yesterday.
armed resistance is legal and moral.
(also maybe Israel should focus on Hamas rather than hospitals.)
That piction is the unfortunate consequences of choices made.
glad that we can agree that Israel is a terrorist nation.
they offered the hostages back for nothing on Oct 9th
armed resistance is legal and moral.
(also maybe Israel should focus on Hamas rather than hospitals.)
glad that we can agree that Israel is a terrorist nation.
If you want to argue Hamas is acting legally and morally, that is your prerogative. But you also have to accept actions have consequences. And even if you dont accept it, they still do.
I understand, and so does Hamas I would assume, that Western values dictate the mass murder of doctors (and women and children) to force compliance.
they offered the hostages back for nothing on Oct 9th
armed resistance is legal and moral.
(also maybe Israel should focus on Hamas rather than hospitals.)
glad that we can agree that Israel is a terrorist nation.
There is no such thing as offering the hostages back for nothing. Stop with the bs. Idk who you’re even trying to convince outside of yourself at this point. They could release the hostages for nothing, at any point but it hasn’t happened.
Israel is doing both (focusing on Hamas and hospitals) because unfortunately Hamas deliberately makes them one and the same.
A lot of unfortunate consequences of being the puppets of religious zealots and dictators.
Five more facts to deny:
On December 26, Gaza's health ministry confirmed the fourth case of an infant freezing to death in 72 hours. A day later, a 28-year-old doctor also died due to hypothermia. There was one common denominator in each death: they were living in tents.
And Jesus being a Palestinian or Jew is so laughably irrelevant to the current conflict. I only brought it up because it’s another example of a totally insane narrative that Twitter bots are pushing and some people accept without any critical thought. It’s just another small cog in the propaganda war.
There is no such thing as offering the hostages back for nothing.
glad we agree this was never about the hostages. took you guys like 15 months to get on my level but welcome bredren.
Five more facts to deny:
No one is denying this. War is bad. Hamas and the thousands of Palestinian "civilians" who participated in 10/7 shouldn't have done so. Hamas should end the war by giving up the hostages and negotiating exile.
This has been the incontrovertible truth every day since 10/7/2023, and will be the truth tomorrow and the next day, and the day after that.
if Hamas gives up their weapons then the Gazans will be slaughtered to a man. the only thing keeping them from all being executed is the weapons.
we all know what has happened every time the resistance has given up their defensive arms in the past.
