Israel/Palestine thread

This just shows, that even when a Muslim country uses mass murder weapons, Israel is still condemned more than said country.

Do we really want to argue that there is a bias against Israel? Is this subject even merits a discussion?

Ill amuse your claims.

Assuming all you claim is 100% true, and Israel is an apartheid fascist racist genocidal state, is Israel really X100 worse than the next worst country in the world?

Does Israel commit X100 more crimes against humanity than the next worst country?

no, Israeli criminality and murder pales in comparison to the USA.

So, your short list of countries that committed crimes against humanity is as follows:

USA.................................................................................Israel......................................ROW

Got it. Congratulations, you just made it to the top of the class

^^ Assuming this is true, than you just agreed that the UN and all human rights organizations are biased, as they all condemned Israel far more times than the US.

First mistake

I didnt say that

America often uses proxies for their dirty work but yes, the Imperial international organizations are probably more biased in favor of the USA than Israel. or maybe not biased, but just more lenient for various political and material and preservational reasons.

hehe agree, but it is funny to showcase how Vic, Jal and co. build an argument.

they think of an argument that is pro-Israel and they take away reason and logic (jack said it better)

I will say one thing that I really dont get about Israel is the Haredi situation. How is it that your high birthrate, low employment religious zealots refuse to work or join the military? Shouldn't it be the other way around. Shouldn't the religious zealots be the warrior class. That seems to be something Islam does right at least.

I am not one to advocate for religious zealotry. But if you are going to go that route, it seems like you should be the one volunteering to live/die for the cause. Especially if you think your religious duties are so important you dont have time to work or participate productively in society.

And given demographic trends pretty soon 1/4 of the country is going to be unemployed on welfare, and everyone else is supposed to just tighten the belt straps to accommodate them? How is that supposed to work?

any demographics which manages to get free money to do nothing (in the Haredi case, to "study" the holy books lol) will very rapidly become insufferable at the idea of needing to do something for a living.

parasitism happens everywhere in any society that doesn't work very hard to prevent it. it usually starts with good intentions to try to help groups that society believe bring positive externalities and/or deserve help for other reasons, and invariably ends up in a group leeching off society at large and using those resources to capture politics in order to keep those benefits.

usually parasitism gets dismantled (or reduced a lot) when society goes through a crisis big enough, the leeching of resources which was previously accepted or at least tolerated (and kept in place by the surgical use of political capital by the parasitic group) feels like it's too much of a burden to the general population.

I mean, your entire argument is that for some intrinsic reason it is impossible that Israel has broken international law more than any other country. there is nothing special about Israel in my opinion but that is borderline banworthy.

it is impossible because of size and resources available, that's pretty intrinsic

The religious groups in Israel are sub-divided to many smaller groups, with four main categories:

1. The Ashkenazi Haredim (also known as the Lithuanian group) – mostly anti-Zionists, the men do not enlist as principle and hardly work (most women do work). They differ themselves from society and in most communities, they don’t even speak Hebrew, but Yiddish.
For many years, their representatives in the Knesset did not agree to hold the title of minister, but only deputy minister, even though they acted as full minister, as some kind of protest against the state. They are trash, to say the least.
They do not teach their kids English, math, and such and try to forbid smart phones (now there are "kosher" smart phones)

2. The Sephardic Haredim – a little bit more integrated into society, more serve in the army, more work. Still a problem, but not half as bad.

3. The National religious- first in line in combat, highly educated on average, very well integrated. Right wing sadly but believe in separation of state and "church" and contribute a lot to society.

4. The National Haredim – Bezalel Smotrich and company. Nazis. Most serve in the army. They are the leading settler's groups, the most devoted to the "full nation of Israel" ideology.

Only the first group is a complete leech. The 3rd and 4th are mostly plus EV monetary wise.
All groups pose a demographic danger to the liberal Israel.

Why does every discussion one of you feels the need to "threaten" me with a ban. Dude, im in my 40s. I dont care. im here to debate, not to consider your feelings.

He's not. He's saying he can't elucidate because he will be banned if he does.

Got it. so Vic is afraid of getting banned for stating his opinion? that is even sadder.

I agree it's sad that adults are unable to hold conversations with each other that neither finds unacceptable, but here we are.

Hehe, we reached a common ground.

next step - world peace

Iran never used chemical weapons against Iraq. Are posts from this individual littered with false information? I mean, obviously the opinions are of the frothing variety, but do we have another totally delusional case here?

Iraq used them a lot more (and did it first) but late in the war Iran retaliated in kind

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/part-iii-we-attacked-them-chemical-weapons-and-they-attacked-us-chemical-weapons-iraqi

Wilson Center

Part III: “We attacked them with chemical weapons and they attacked us with chemical weapons”: Iraqi Records and the History of Iran’s Chemical Weapons Program

--Seems to be a consensus Iran used limited chemical weapons near the end of the war.

--As an aside, although we can question his methods Saddam should probably be given more credit for stopping the revolution in its tracks. Who knows how bad things would have gotten if Iran had gotten control of Shia majority Iraq.

Although if this would have happened, this could have also triggered the US getting directly involved and overthrowing the IRI; and who knows how the future would have been different (for better or worse) if this happened.

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC...

Would you like to take this post back �� How can someone be so pompous and so wrong at the same time?

FYI, we had a few different chemical drills, all in accordance to the specific enemy – Iran, Iraq or Syria. It was a known fact in Israel Iran was using chemical weapons, way before it was published.

Ask more, comment less.

Well, I think this all boils down to deciding how far Russian's empire/sphere of influence should extend. And how willing the West should be opposing Russia extending its sphere of influence, especially if the people living in those areas dont want to be part of Russian sphere of influence.

I mean we can all agree Russia should never retake control of Poland/East Germany, but also gave up Belarus without any fight; but much of the land in between seems to be a gray area where opinions differ.

Bold is a problem, big one, because we can't lie to ourselves and claim that Donbas residents were against Russia entering, they were in favor as a majority.

We shouldn't let people choose to side with our enemies though, we should just claim that it's already a lot if we allow an inimical Russia to exist, and they should have 0 influence outside their border, and pay a very big price if they ever try to have one.