British Politics
Been on holiday for a few weeks, surprised to find no general discussion of British politics so though I'd kick one off.
Tory leadership contest is quickly turning into farce. Trump has backed Boris, which should be reason enough for anyone with half a brain to exclude him.
Of the other candidates Rory Stewart looks the best of the outsiders. Surprised to see Cleverly and Javid not further up the betting, but not sure the Tory membership are ready for a brown PM.
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/bri...
Regarding the LD leadership contest, Jo Swinson is miles ahead of any other candidate (and indeed any of the Tory lot). Should be a shoe in.
Finally, it's Groundhog Day in Labour - the more serious the anti-Semitism claims get, the more Corbyn's cronies write their own obituary by blaming it on outlandish conspiracy theories - this week, it's apparently the Jewish Embassy's fault...
you won't have a healthy economy if you drive away your best and brightest, which in this economy in particular matter really a lot for development.
this is a winner take all economy which means that you are cater to and nurture real winners, making your country a place where someone better than almost everyone else wants to live, or you lose.
that's the game today and rational people understand that.
build a country where the exceptional most successful people in the world want to live and pay ta
A country isn’t represented by only the most successful people , that the problem you don’t see .
The best environment for successful people is actual one where there is security too .
And for that u need to make sure the less fortunate never join the midddle class together and start cutting heads .
And u do that by a minimum of redistribution .
All rape gangs are terrible, obviously, and every single one of them deserves the harshest sentences possible. But there's something even more disgusting and dehumanising and inhuman, when one cultural group targets another cultural group for such brutality.
You know what's just as disgusting? Handwaving the whole issue away by pointing out that White people also abuse children, so, y'know, the Asian rape gangs are really just getting their fair share of kids to rape and torture.
No one is doing that.
You're making the same mistake as someone would be for accusing others of handwaving it away as only a problem from certain immigrant groups.
The reality is that it's a very serious, too much ignored, problem across all society.
What is the problem you are referring to, and what is the evidence that it is being ignored across society?
No one is doing this either.
What is the problem you are referring to, and what is the evidence that it is being ignored across society?
rape, abuse etc. We have had scandal after scandal of it being ignored for far too long.
No one is doing this either.
Exactly. No-one is doing either. Accusing you of handwaving it away it would be as bad as accusing others of handwaving it away.
Exactly. No-one is doing either. Accusing you of handwaving it away it would be as bad as accusing others of handwaving it away.
and yet people did handwave it away. Blaming the victims or avoiding going after Asian rape gangs for fear of being labelled a racist.
People who were charged with protecting the most vulnerable in society and did nothing should be in prison. That's why we need a national enquiry.
What scandals specifically? The only ones that come to mind are celebrities (Saville et al). So, more like pockets of society rather than the whole of society.
The likes of Farage, Musk, Robinson etc exploiting the stituation to pursue their politcal agendas against immigrants and refugees in such a charged manner is pretty disgusting
It's also very effective. We're heading towards very dark and dengerous times across Europe and the USA
and yet people did handwave it away. Blaming the victims or avoiding going after Asian rape gangs for fear of being labelled a racist.
People who were charged with protecting the most vulnerable in society and did nothing should be in prison. That's why we need a national enquiry.
If it's an enquiry into that then sure.
What scandals specifically? The only ones that come to mind are celebrities (Saville et al). So, more like pockets of society rather than the whole of society.
Scandals are high profile. Catholic church comes to mind as well.
there was a report into the scale of the problem
The inspectorate said: “In 2013, the home affairs committee was able to report that child sexual exploitation was a ‘large-scale, nationwide problem’, which was increasing.
“With such a stark warning, we expected to find, 10 years later, that the police and other organisations had a greater understanding of the problem and had developed effective responses to protect children.
“In many respects, we were disappointed. We found that an accurate view of group-based child sexual exploitation still wasn’t available to the police service, data collection was unreliable, and intelligence gathering wasn’t prioritised.”
The report found that examples of group child sexual exploitation were missed, with some cases handled by non-specialist officers who were less likely to know what to look for. It also said law enforcement lacked a clear definition for group-based child sexual exploitation.
In one case, key evidence from mobile phones was not examined for a year. In another, a child and her friend who were being exploited by a 30-year-old man were themselves initially arrested before officers reversed course and began treating them as victims.
HMICFRS said that in three of the six forces it inspected, it found a dozen instances of victim blaming, which can result from poor culture in a force rather than any failings in individual officers.
Examples included police staff saying about one child victim that “concerns [were] raised [due] to her general proclivity with older men”. In another instance, a missing child was described as “medium-risk due to age – streetwise and tends to return the next day”. In another case, a child was described as “putting herself in precarious situations”, while another child was described as a “difficult victim to engage with”.
The inspectorate said: “Victim-blaming language indicates that some police personnel don’t understand the vulnerability of children. It means that responses to protect and help them are at times inadequate and risk is missed.”
The report dismissed claims that attackers were likely to be predominantly from one ethnic group: “Any public perception that those responsible are predominantly from the Pakistani or south Asian community may be influenced by national media coverage of some of the cases … Furthermore, we didn’t find that this public perception was supported by the 27 group-based child sexual exploitation investigations we examined during the inspection.”
The report dismissed claims that attackers were likely to be predominantly from one ethnic group: “Any public perception that those responsible are predominantly from the Pakistani or south Asian community may be influenced by national media coverage of some of the cases
iow people here obsessed with Pakistani heritage sex offenders are guilty of allowing their racism to be triggered by the media. No surprise when you consider the posters involved. One of them actively cheers on a genocide of Muslims and another thinks immigrants are criminals.
Right, so a problem that seems to be specific to silos - BBC DJs, Catholic Church and Pakistani men, than a wider issue with society.
In 2013...The report dismissed claims that attackers were likely to be predominantly from one ethnic group
We now know this is just wrong:
The likes of Farage, Musk, Robinson etc exploiting the stituation to pursue their politcal agendas against immigrants and refugees in such a charged manner is pretty disgusting
It's also very effective. We're heading towards very dark and dengerous times across Europe and the USA
What would be the danger for europeans if, say, not a single poor person from a third world country is allowed to immigrate in the USA or in europe for the next 30 years? VERY DANGEROUS in which sense, what disaster would happen to citizens of Germany or people in Tennesse if those were the rules?
Walk me through the horrific scenario you envision if we interrupt immigration of poor people in a post-industrial economy where technology might very well make most jobs obsolete anyway in the next 50 years, what do you lose by keeping poor people out?
iow people here obsessed with Pakistani heritage sex offenders are guilty of allowing their racism to be triggered by the media. No surprise when you consider the posters involved. One of them actively cheers on a genocide of Muslims and another thinks immigrants are criminals.
You realize that given that we know for a fact governement at all level covered crimes by british-pakistani, it's automatic and rational to believe crime rates for all non-white ethnic groups are under-reported and under-assessed right?
If the government did as much as it did to cover what's possibly one of the worst possible crime a person can commit (mass raping minors), the only rational conclusion is they do the same for ALL crimes, including minor violent ones, obvious right?
When you get proof that the chinese government makes up numbers in some sector of the economy to present a brighter picture vs what's really going on in their economy, it's automatic to believe the same is happening for all economic data.
ok then no
Right, so a problem that seems to be specific to silos - BBC DJs, Catholic Church and Pakistani men, than a wider issue with society.
We now know this is just wrong:
From your link
The report says CEOP, an official government body, identifies two types of group-based child sexual exploitation offenders.
Type 1 offenders were those that targeted their victims based on their vulnerability (roughly equivalent of grooming gangs), whereas Type 2 offenders target children as a result of a specific sexual interest in children (roughly equivalent of paedophile rings).
CEOP found that 75% of Type 1 offenders were of Asian ethnicity, whereas 100% of Type 2 offenders were white.
I dont find it at all suprising that all these types from all walks of life target people more vulnerable than they are. It's kind of a truism. They dont pick on the relatively strong.
Right, so a problem that seems to be specific to silos - BBC DJs, Catholic Church and Pakistani men, than a wider issue with society.
We now know this is just wrong:
If that's true and 84% of convictions for gang grooming are of British Pakistanis it does blow up your argument that these cases are ignored by the criminal justice system.
It is not racism to claim that the offspring of poor people typically stay poor, because it's true for natives as well everywhere.
You leftists can't claim for decades that social mobility is low (which is true) and that's a problem (which it isn't for me, unless you import more poor people), and then claim that poor immigrant children will achieve very good outcomes in society.
Richer more educated people will have richer and more educated children, wherever they come from, so take in people over average and 2nd (and more) generation immigrants will be over average, and viceversa.
Just think of the family welfare-net. Imagine identical talents and luck, some people will end up with bad outcomes. If they are from a poor family, taxpayers will have to carry them for decades. If they are from a rich family, the family will carry them. That alone should make you understand why taxpayers would be far better off to have people immigrate who are from rich families than from poor families, even if everything else is identical about them (which it won't be because richer families will instill in them better attitudes, will educate them better both formally and informally and so on).
And that's without even needing to address the possibility that genetics might play some role in outcomes. Even with perfectly identical (or irrelevant) genetics, the above holds.
Speaking of the british pakistani, which came into the UK a while ago (what are we on average, at the 4th generation?) , they still have abysmally worse incomes than the rest of the population
/in this period, an average of 79% of Bangladeshi households were in the 2 lowest income quintiles (after housing costs were deducted) - this was the highest percentage out of all ethnic groups/
Which automatically, makes them people who commit more crimes and so on (again not because "racism", but because poverty correlates with everything bad)
"unsurprisingly", british-chinese people are never spoken of as criminal or as problematic for society, do you wonder why?
/almost half (48%) of Chinese households were in the 2 highest income quintiles (after housing costs) - the highest percentage of all ethnic groups/
Remember you disingenously and in bad faith use aggregate , average stats for ALL immigrants to claim they overall are ALL good for the economy and society (which is true for the UK somewhat, very true for the USA, and very false for most continental europe countries), while there are a lot of immigrants which are evidently a lot BETTER than natives for society, and a lot who are a lot worse, and you can select them avoiding the latter
It is not racism to claim that the offspring of poor people typically stay poor, because it's true for natives as well everywhere./
The challenge is to change society so that people brought up in poor households have better opportunities. That's a basic principle of leftism. I chat often with a Glaswegian poster on another forum, and his English grammar and spelling are atrocious, about the level of a 9 or 10 year old I guess, and capitalism has wrecked his social class.
Speaking of the british pakistani, which came into the UK a while ago (what are we on average, at the 4th generation?) , they still have abysmally worse incomes than the rest of the population/
Most are first, second or at most third generation.
"unsurprisingly", british-chinese people are never spoken of as criminal or as problematic for society, do you wonder why?
/almost half (48%) of Chinese households were in the 2 highest income quintiles (after housing costs) - the highest percentage of all ethnic groups
No I don't really wonder why. I've been to China several times and immense cultural differences is a major part, and coming from a background of Confucionism and then Maoism has led to a culture of money-oriented conformism. Things are changing there now however, as the hyper-inflated property market has led young people to question the values of their society as property ownership in the cities is beyond them, and has led to a more Western hedonistic lifestyle among younger urban people.
It's also very effective. We're heading towards very dark and dengerous times across Europe and the USA
I blame all those politicians and people in charge (and I'm looking at you, EU) that don't actually work to make the lives of people better, and instead either let their mates make a ton of cash or put virtue-signalling or promote 'look how great we are' over actual solid improvement. When people are left with a horrible choice of the same old thing or a horrible choice and something different, it's not a surprise they are willing to roll the dice, is it?
The challenge is to change society so that people brought up in poor households have better opportunities. That's a basic principle of leftism. I chat often with a Glaswegian poster on another forum, and his English grammar and spelling are atrocious, about the level of a 9 or 10 year old I guess, and capitalism has wrecked his social class.
e.
Well society has low social mobility right now and it had low social mobility since like forever (even if in the 60-70s it was a tad higher, it was still low).
So, you have to admit that poor immigrants will have children which will mostly keep having under-average outcomes and so be a burden for taxpayers. That's objectively true.
So just don't take poors in, use immigration by rich people / people who can earn high incomes to help native poors without taking in foreign poors.
Jalfrezi also keep in mind that it's already pretty hard to convince well off people to pay more for "their own" poor, it becomes virtually impossible to convince people to pay for foreign, imported poors.
When you import many poors, increases in universal welfare necessarily impact foreign people disproportionately more than natives, and so political consensus to increase social welfare gets even lower.
That is what happens with social housing in Italy, when people realize it's used by immigrants a lot, the already "not too high" willingness to pay for more social housing completly evaporates.
Why the hell pay more taxes for services which go to people who shouldn't even be here to begin with? the state isn't supposed to be a global charity, at least not for most normal people.
