How to handle Dealer mistakes ...
i play a ton of live PLO, so i'm witnessing a lot of mistakes on a regular basis - bigger and smaller ones. Even the best dealers make mistakes from time to time, and bad dealers make a lot of them. I used to correct everything i saw, but changed my approach on this over time, now do it more deliberately, depending on circumstances. Several reasons for this:
a) don't want the dealer to be pissed at me (nobody likes to be told they made a mistake, work pride, shame in front of the table, etc.)
b) depending on who is it done to (if an ******* at the table doesn't get enough change, i say nothing, if it's a nice guy or a whale who gets shorted, i point it out)
c) if it's a minor thing, and i'm not affected/not in the pot, for example small error in pot calculation (raise from the blinds and blind is added, happens very often still etc.), i stay quiet
How do you guys handle this?
How do you rate my approach from a moral point of view (not consistent correcting, but dependent as described)?
any other ideas?
thx for input
Yes, we are. So is this one of your weaknesses
So even when you see monetary mistakes being made, you'd do the right thing unless you thought he was an *******. Got it!
I'm glad that most all of the people I play poker with don't have these kinds of weaknesses and will still do the right thing ethically.
a) i gladly accept this "weakness"
b) i wish you the strength to stop lying to yourself
Your Adulting professors have failed you. I can choose to show compassion and patience with service workers. To say that those go out the door when money is involved is not the look that you think it is.
The rudeness you assume I show to service workers is in your imagination.
Believe it or not, normies can be assertive and kind simultaneously.
Yes. We normies understand that. Which is why the part of bolt's comment about being kind is relevant.
What is the remaining confusion here lmao.
I wasn't asking you for any advice, it was the other way around.
I'm happy to call out the variance no matter who it is, but that's just me.
And I wasn’t giving any, since it’s clear you are not capable of accepting any.
Still wishing you the best, since some of us are capable of doing that. May be you’ll learn one day, who knows
You have already told your ethics are situational. Ofc that actually man’s you don’t have ethics. Some will do the ethical thing every time the can.
Just to clarify:
Being honest with myself by not helping out an ass at the table but showing compassion to a sometimes overworked dealer?
I guess I’ll take my ethics over what you call ethics any day buddy … but you do you.
If a dealer makes a mistake regardless of who it affects I will always speak up and make sure the mistake is corrected. To do otherwise is just not right.
I have corrected dealer mistakes when I am in a hand where it costs me a pot. I have corrected dealer mistakes when the person who gained hated me. It makes no difference. The point is that without doing it we allow the game to be awful. More importantly the dealer may be cheating (extremely unlikely I know) and we can't let that happen.
The funniest example of this that happened was in a 20/40 LHE game in Bay 101 many years ago. There were two players in a large pot. One guy had 33 the other 42. The flop was like 972 some bets. The turn was a 9 some more bets and the player with 42 was all in. Both players turned over their hands. The river was a 7. The guy with 42 got up and left the table thinking his pair of 2's had lost to 33. The dealer didn't say anything or do anything. He didn't start pushing the pot to the 42 player's seat. I called out to the 42 guy to tell him to come back that he had won the hand and the player with 33 started screaming at me that it was none of my business. In my life I had never seen anything like this happen in a casino and my understanding of the rules was once you table your hand, if it wins, you have to be given the pot. The guy did come back and was pushed the pot and the 33 guy went after me for hours. So I didn't like him. The next day the 33 guy was in a hand that went to the river. He tabled his hand the other guy tabled his hand and the dealer started to push the pot to the other guy but the 33 guy had the better hand and for whatever reason thought he had lost. Even though I hated the 33 guy I spoke up and the dealer stopped and pushed the pot to the 33 guy. Who you would think would thank me and apologize for his really bad behavior the day before. But no that didn't happen. He still hated me...
Ultimately the problem with speaking up is that sometimes I am wrong. Other players don't like it that I have wasted their time and dealers sometimes get mad at me (though most just correct me without it being a thing). But when I am right, most often the dealers thank me and the player who benefits is grateful that I noticed.
The one time I almost didn't speak up was in an EPT 330 Euro multi day tournament in Prague. The dealer was a beautiful woman who I liked and thought was a really good dealer. I was in a hand HU where I was the BB and UTG sitting next to me min raised. I had 53s and called. The flop was AQQ none of my suit and I checked. The dealer thought the other player had checked and dealt out the turn. The other player said he hadn't checked. So the dealer should have called the Floor over. But instead the dealer asked the player if he would have checked the flop. The player said "yes" and the Dealer then said it was on me that the turn had been dealt. I was in an awkward spot. The guy to my left could have loved the flop and didn't want to see a different one or he might have missed the flop and really would have checked. Me calling over the Floor was going to make the Dealer look bad and definitely meant she was going to hate me. I think the turn helped my hand (like it was a 5 or 4) but that didn't matter to me. I called the Floor. Who made the dealer re-deal the flop where again I missed completely. And I folded before the other guy even bet. At that point I just didn't care and felt a little bad that I had given myself a second chance. Not sure what I would do if it happened again but one of my choices might be to just muck my hand after the turn got dealt because I don't feel comfortable possibly winning that hand because of a dealer error and also I wouldn't want to get the dealer in trouble. And the reality was regardless of whether the other guy liked the flop or not I was going to lose that hand anyway because no way was I going to bluff on the turn or river. The end result was that I won the multi day tournament and I wouldn't have if I had done anything differently (butterfly effect)...
If a dealer makes a mistake regardless of who it affects I will always speak up and make sure the mistake is corrected. To do otherwise is just not right.
I have corrected dealer mistakes when I am in a hand where it costs me a pot. I have corrected dealer mistakes when the person who gained hated me. It makes no difference. The point is that without doing it we allow the game to be awful. More importantly the dealer may be cheating (extremely unlikely I know) and we can't let that happen.
Th
Good stories Sir, thx for that.
I’m pretty sure I know the beautiful dealer you talk about, she used to be a regular dealer at EPT but went to Triton.
This
As far as dealers getting annoyed, that's on them, but to be fair a lot of that comes down to how to bring it up. There are good ways and there are bad ways.
This is the perfect answer.
Every dealer recognizes that they will make mistakes. No dealer is perfect.
The way to correct their mistakes is to be understanding and non-confrontational. There is a huge difference between asking the dealer if he gave the small blind the proper $4 change and saying he is bad and an idiot.
good points you mentioned ... but also:
shouldn't it be the responsibility of the tourney organizer to either hire experienced dealers, or if they hire new ones, to train them accordingly? (blink blink at wsop and others ;-))
How much do you think dealers make?
Hiring experienced dealers is easy to say but much harder to do. Like most poker players, good poker dealers could probably make more money doing something else.
This is all really a basic question of "How do we want to treat people who make mistakes when they're being paid to provide a service to us?" It doesn't have to be dealer specific. If a dealer is legitimately trying to do their best, then maybe show some compassion and patience. If a dealer is a know-it-all who thinks they should be on Mt Rushmore, then show less patience, or just go straight to the supervisor or manager.
Is the dealer making mistakes because he's brand new at the job and he's ne
Another great answer.
I would offer up a couple of caveats.
I am one of those poker dealers who thinks they are good. I also know that I make mistakes. Somedays I make a lot of them.
I also try to recognize when it is one of those days and adjust appropriately. I am also 100% open to being called out on my mistakes. One of my most common discussions is one player claiming I made a mistake and me reviewing the action with them. Most often it is they didn't understand what I did and when explained it made sense, but I never ever berate someone for questioning my actions. My response is always to thank then for paying attention because I know I have made plenty of mistakes in the past and will in the future.
It is more important for the action to be right than for me to be right.
good points you mentioned ... but also:
shouldn't it be the responsibility of the tourney organizer to either hire experienced dealers, or if they hire new ones, to train them accordingly? (blink blink at wsop and others ;-))
I've made it a point to not discuss specifics about how much I make when I'm asked the question (usually in thedeal tipping thread) but I'll be specific here.
I moonlight in a room that's in the same region as where I work full-time. This is a room that has most of the tournament action in the area, whereas my full-time gig is a room that only has cash games. When the tourney room has a series (usually 5-6 times per year) I pick up a few shifts since they need the help and they're happy to get experienced dealers for whatever days they might be available. The tourney downs end up being about $12 to $15. The money isn't great, but the work is easy, I'm appreciated there, and they give me tremendous flexibility to work only the days that I let them know I'm available. If I work a 10 hour shift, I end up with about $250 for the day after taxes are deducted.
I'm not looking to debate how much dealers are worth or what we should be paid. If you want to take that up, please copy this post and paste it in the tipping thread. I'll be happy to discuss the topic of wages there. What I will say is that dealers who work full-time in this room don't last long. The turnover rate there is off the charts. And there's no amount of training that the manager can provide that will turn rookie dealers into competent dealers. It just isn't possible. Dealers get better by dealing in real-life situations to real players. After 6 months, dealers become competent. After a couple of years they become fully capable. And that's the good ones.
So what do we have in tournaments?
Dealers who think they're underpaid.
Players who think that the tournament fees are too high.
Casino executives who think that the poker room doesn't bring in enough revenue.
I know that when I sit down to deal a tournament table for 30 minutes, the players are thrilled to have me, and they let me know it. I also know that I work in this room 5-10 days in a year.
I've made it a point to not discuss specifics about how much I make when I'm asked the question (usually in thedeal tipping thread) but I'll be specific here.
I moonlight in a room that's in the same region as where I work full-time. This is a room that has most of the tournament action in the area, whereas my full-time gig is a room that only has cash games. When the tourney room has a series (usually 5-6 times per year) I pick up a few shifts since they need the help and they're happy to get ex
well, thx first of all to shining some light onto this, with direct knowledge from someone who actually does this job.
but, if i understand you correctly, you are saying this situation is actually not solvable, meaning, there's no way to make this better for all participants?
well, thx first of all to shining some light onto this, with direct knowledge from someone who actually does this job.
but, if i understand you correctly, you are saying this situation is actually not solvable, meaning, there's no way to make this better for all participants?
It is easily solvable.
Raise the rake and pay dealers more. Pay dealers more and I am 100% certain you will get better dealers. Way better.
That is not how casinos operate though. Poker room margins are already low, paying dealers more is not a real option.
If players want to go to games with $10 rake, I am quite sure the quality of dealing will improve. How many players here are advocating for that?
It is easily solvable.
Raise the rake and pay dealers more. Pay dealers more and I am 100% certain you will get better dealers. Way better.
That is not how casinos operate though. Poker room margins are already low, paying dealers more is not a real option.
If players want to go to games with $10 rake, I am quite sure the quality of dealing will improve. How many players here are advocating for that?
well, what you say shows it's definitely not solvable this way:
Casinos as wells as tournament organizers (like WSOP and others) are for-profit organizations ... higher rake means they would simply put it into their pockets, increase their profit that way, and pay dealers the same as before.
I also think people shouldn't pass judgement on stuff they clearly do not have a clue about.
It does make for some good comedy though.
LOL at thinking that players can't tell the difference between a good dealer and a shitty dealer.
We can tell. And we still tip, even when dealers are distracted, spreading germs when they should be home, or simply barely competent. But screw off at saying that players have "no clue" how hard it is to be dealer, when we literally watch them work.
Again, the world needs ditch diggers too.
LOL at thinking that players can't tell the difference between a good dealer and a shitty dealer.
We can tell. And we still tip, even when dealers are distracted, spreading germs when they should be home, or simply barely competent. But screw off at saying that players have "no clue" how hard it is to be dealer, when we literally watch them work.
Again, the world needs ditch diggers too.
Just about every player would agree that they don't want a dealer who is distracted or in a bad mood.
After that, different players have vastly different ideas about which dealer they prefer.
Some players will see a dealer who is moving quickly but who is sloppy and will think "that dealer is hustling.... great dealer!"
Some players see a dealer who puts on a show and tells entertaining stories and makes players laugh, and they eat that up. Other players see that same dealer and think "shut up and deal."
Some players catalog dealers by how lucky they perceive they are when that dealer is in the box.
Some players simply want a dealer who is young, female, attractive, and flirty.
I will agree that most professional players generally have a consensus of who the bad dealers are vs the good dealers. But professional players make up 2 to 5 percent of the room whereas recreational players have absolutely no consensus of what they want in a dealer.
For me the only thing I care about a dealer is that when they make a mistake they own it. I have no criticism of a dealer when they make a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes.
What I can't stand is when a dealer makes a mistake and then blames it on a player. This rarely happens with monetary mistakes though.
When I bring up a mistake in chip counting and the dealer is in fact wrong, they typically just fix it and we move on. Often they thank me for the help. Are there dealers that do this more often than other dealers? I don't really know because it happens so rarely.
What I loved about dealers in Prague was that for the most part when a player put out a stack of chips that were different colors, the dealer would separate it out while another player was thinking about what to do. This made the count of each bet much easier to ascertain, and it probably saved a lot of time because most players didn't have to ask for a count.
It is easily solvable.
Raise the rake and pay dealers more. Pay dealers more and I am 100% certain you will get better dealers. Way better.
That is not how casinos operate though. Poker room margins are already low, paying dealers more is not a real option.
If players want to go to games with $10 rake, I am quite sure the quality of dealing will improve. How many players here are advocating for that?
The rake is $10 at the Encore in Everett, MA. The dealers are not significantly better than other dealers.
You have already told your ethics are situational. Ofc that actually man’s you don’t have ethics. Some will do the ethical thing every time the can.
"Be good to good people" seems like a perfectly fine moral standard to me.
I guess if Elon Musk dropped a dollar bill in the street and a starving child picked it up, you would rush to correct the problem?
