Villain posts as new player in CO, limp calls to open, then 3-bets
2/3/5 NL 8 handed table
H image: tight, has made some big hands and won without showdown, has not shown a bluff, stack $1500
V2: 60 y/o passive loose Filipino man, has limp-called preflop raises with AQs, QQ. Is one of a couple players at the table who have been often calling my preflop raises. I think he has called almost every time I have raised in front of him. Stack $240.
V1: 40 y/o white European player (can tell from his accent and clothing style). He just arrived at the table. I have never seen him before. I've heard talk of a group of European pros who come and play here for a few weeks at a time. Stack $650.
V2 is in the UTG $10 straddle.
V1 posts $5 as new player in the CO.
It folds to V1 and he calls to $10.
H raises to $60 with AJo on the button.
Folds to V2 who calls.
V1 makes it $225.
H???
I think V1 looks like a thinking experienced player, but this is his first hand. Who just open calls the straddle with a strong hand after posting in the CO? Is this a known play? His 3-bet seemed fishy to me, like a squeeze and he is hoping to induce a fold from me.
Because V2 has I think called every single pre-flop raise of mine over the past 2 hours, rightly or wrongly I am not worried about him.
I would snap fold. We don't have enough info or reads on him to think he's bluffing. Dunno why he didn't raise the first time, maybe he saw you liked your hand before he called the straddle.
Yeah, easy fold without more reads. That kind of play is not a bluff much, and often AA/KK or QQ+/AK.
2/3/5 NL 8 handed tableH image: tight, has made some big hands and won without showdown, has not shown a bluff, stack $1500V2: 60 y/o passive loose Filipino man, has limp-called preflop raises with AQs, QQ. Is one of a couple players at the table who have been often calling my preflop raises. I think he has called almost every time I have raised in front of him. Stack $240.V1:
You think V1 is fishy squeezing and you’re not worried about V2. Go allin. V2 will call for his last $180, but again you’re not worried about him, right? And you now have position and psychological control over V1. Trust your reads.
Maybe he was gonna slow play his hand since he hadda post.
Was there a lot of raising pre? Were any players after you aggressive, whales, or players that will overplay their hand? Maybe he was trying to keep someone else in.
The bottom of his range is AK and it crushes us. Other hands he could have are just coin flips potentially for our stack.
and fwiw we have zero reads basically
V1: 40 y/o white European player (can tell from his accent and clothing style). He just arrived at the table. I have never seen him before. I've heard talk of a group of European pros who come and play here for a few weeks at a time. Stack $650.
he's most likely just a random recreational player. I don't even know what a pro would be limp/rr'ing with in that spot (I can't think of any hands, without a dynamic at the table, that would be considered a good play for a "pro").
I'd be willing to bet money he had aces, but that's just me.
He literally was still taking his chips out of the rack after arriving when he posted the $5 to enter. I don't know if he scoped out the table beforehand but I think he came in as a table change as he had an uneven stack with multiple denominations. The table had been quiet for an orbit or two, many deals not going to a flop, with chops. But again, I don't know if he saw that.
Maybe he was gonna slow play his hand since he hadda post. Was there a lot of raising pre? Were any players after you aggressive, whales, or players that will overplay their hand? Maybe he was trying to keep someone else in. The bottom of his range is AK and it crushes us. Other hands he could have are just coin flips potentially for our stack. and fwiw we have zero reads basic
Later on, I saw him talking with a couple other young European players (speaking a foreign language), that I have never seen before. I think they came to the casino together. I left about 20 minutes after the hand in discussion.
Did you see him actually look at his cards? Sounds like he called in the blind bc he didn't wanna slow the game up then checked to see what he had when someone raised.
I would snap fold. We don't have enough info or reads on him to think he's bluffing. Dunno why he didn't raise the first time, maybe he saw you liked your hand before he called the straddle.
This. It literally be anything. My guess is that it's a dominance display. So let V display.
After this hand, call down and raise, with hands you'd like to go to war with. Also a guess, you're ahead now of what he's doing this with. But we don't know, and SPR's getting short.
Seems like the easiest fold in the world and I'm not sure what kind of live read of a complete unknown would get me to continue here. I guess that there theoretically is such a read but "suspected Euro pro plays oddly" is not it. If you folded and he slammed 52o in front of you with a smug expression, I can understand why that would be annoying but I don't see any reason to continue with the information provided.
ok, sometimes it's hard to tell or remember but either way, I would just fold.
Also what's the max buy in there? He had only 650 and it was his first hand, if the buy in's 1K, it's an even easier no brainer fold.
One of the biggest mistakes newer player make is when they put someone in a certain category and play them accordingly, which is based on nothing like assuming just because someone speaks with an accent, they must be a pro from Europe who's trying to bully the table. He's playing his first hand and he just threw in a third of his stack while still taking chips out of his rack (and probably bought in short) this is usually aces or kings and possibly queens. Jamming with AJ here vs a l/rr from a totally unknown would just be pressing buttons.
Poker's not a **** measuring contest lol, he's not raising just to bully you. If you jammed and he folded some trash, it's still a huge gamble hoping he's a rich whale who doesn't care about money at all.
Wow, that's a tough one. It's really a table read. What vibe do you give? As a middle-aged woman, I'd think he was trying to bully me, but who knows for sure? I've had it happen before.
My favorite was a guy who was aggressively betting into me after he 3bet me pre and I snap called him on the river w/ AT and my A high was good 😉
Why? CO could easily be full of it. If I get the vibe CO is legit, fine. When I get a vibe that someone is just trying to buy the pot or run me over, I'm going to play back at them with decent hands. You can fold all you want -- I realize how many players in this forum are nits. 5% of you would have called the guy who tried to bully me with A high 😉
Results:
Spoiler
When V1 made his pre-flop 3-bet, I just felt like he was FOS. Maybe it was a bit impulsive, but I thought about it for 5-6 seconds and raised all-in. V2 called to go all-in for $240. V1 didn't look happy, and after a few seconds he shrugged as if saying well I have to call now, and called off his stack.
Board: Jc Tc 6s 7s 3h
V1 and V2 were slow to show their hands, so I flipped mine over and took the pot. In retrospect, I wish I had waited so I could see their cards.
I posted this hand because even though it worked out, I think it might have been a wrong play. I don't know if my read was right or not, because I never saw the other players' cards. Maybe they had AK or AQ. Or maybe my instincts happened to be right in this instance. But it might be a losing play in the long term to go off "instinct" like this. And maybe it was a bit of ego on my part.
It wasn't until later that I saw that V2 was talking to a couple other Euro guys that I didn't recognize, and I think they might be a travelling crew. V2 hardly played any hands over the next 2 orbits, and then I left.
Spoiler
ni han, sir. Like I said above, trust your reads.
Even if your read is right I think you have the wrong hand to do anything about it.
I think sometimes you have to go with your gut -- it's part of being a good player. If V had AK, I doubt he would have tanked. And, if you "sucked out, " he probably shows.
That he is a Euro new to the table makes it more likely he is bluffing. Not sure they have the culture of limp/3!s with AA/KK in Europe and he is likely a pro.
It is nice you got a J-high flop and AJ was good. However, your equity versus there hands preflop could not have been that great. Against AA, however, you are crushed and less than 30% against QQ/KK/AK.
I seem to recall a recent Bart Hanson video, in which he talked about attacking the post-limp, and slow-playing some big hands from the post as a counter-strategy. I think Bart was saying that an aware player could limp in with some big PP's after posting, if he thinks a player behind will attack the limp with a raise.
I don't know if I'd expect that sort of play from someone who just sat down at the table, but regardless, the limp-3B is usually a pretty strong hand.
It sucks to raise-fold after V2 calls, but V1 only starts with $650. You can 4B jam, but I don't think you'd have any fold equity, and are probably going to be up against a better ace, or a pocket pair, most likely QQ+.
^This.
I doubt V1 was upset about getting his money in with AK. He might have had AQo, or 99 maybe. A different run-out, he scoops, and we hate ourselves for 4B-jamming over a limp-3B with AJo.
Now, if we knew our opponent, and seen him make this move before with garbage, or if we knew he's capable of folding to a jam after making this play, I could see jamming AJo, either for value against his FOS range, or as a bluff against his 3B-fold range.
A big problem in this hand is that V2 already called off the $60 raise, and only left himself $180 back. If his hand is good enough to call off the $60, he's unlikely to fold when V1 adds $225 to the pot, and we jam. He's going to be getting around 2.4:1, with 1/4 of his starting stack already invested, and a chance at tripling up.
