Top 2 vs 4x shove
1/3 NLHE 9 handed
Table is very gambly with a few whales driving the action.
LJ - one such whale, in particular is openin
You guys are stuck on the whale. The whale is spazz mode and we have position. Maybe 'whale' is the wrong term. More like maniac. Raising him is fine if you're willing to put in 450$ with KQs pre.
Result:
Spoiler
I call. V shows K♣ J♣ and river is 9♠
I agree - he's more like a maniac than a whale.
A whale is a very big fish - they're super loose, and super passive. They call big bets with bad hands.
A maniac is an extreme LAG - they're super loose, but super aggressive. They make big bets with bad hands.
I'd be happy to get it in for $450 with KQs against a maniac. I wouldn't necessarily be happy to get it in with a whale, since the whale isn't supposed to be showing much aggression, unless he has a monstrous hand.
As others have noted, your big mistake here was pre-flop. By not 3B'ing the whale, you let BTN into the hand. Should we mind? Maybe not, since he was in there with KJ, and jammed turn with just TP2K and a draw. We'll win more often than we lose there.
But instead of looking at our hand's equity vs his hand's equity, we should be looking at our ability to realize our equity when we'll be OOP to a LAG. We should really prefer to get him out of the hand by raising pre-flop. Post-flop, we should be playing a more defensive style against an opponent who's capable of putting us in tough spots.
You give a lengthy description of the whale, and then when he opens from MP you don't 3-bet with KQs from the CO, especially with a solid winning LAG next to act on the BTN
Hulk sad.
This.
Letting a LAG with hand reading skills into a bingo poker pot IP is terrible for you. KQs crushes the range of the whale. Easy 3 bet and maybe even call some 4 bets.
Now I don’t know what to do because I wouldn’t have underrepresented my hand this much postflop. I guess we call because I don’t know what we show up here with that’s better.
i dont really understand focusing strategy on a winning player who hasnt vpiped yet as opposed to the whale you have position on. is maybe over stepping but you seem more concerned about not getting overplayed or proving you can hang with good players as opposed to making money (not just this thread but in general)
To those asking why not 3-bet whale...
He's as wide as 95s here and is 4-bet shoving all his suited AX, all PPs, and some KXs as well as some SCs. Post flop he will donk pot with any pair. 15 is a really small open for him and made me think he is weak. He may have just folded to a 3-bet which would have been tragic.
Also if LAG 3-bets I think I have a comfortable backraise
I'll skip the turn analysis since you revealed.
This is comfortable 3b. Your EV heads up vs whale is way higher than multiway. He is as wide as 95s. He plays face up postflop.
Why worry about having a strategy for the guy 3betting you when you just knock him out almost always by 3betting? I don't like the back raise with our hand. Our range is capped and a backraise makes it look like we have either a middling pocket pair or a hand exactly like the one we have. Easy 5bet shove (or snap if you just jam) with AQ, TT+.
Also, the guy didn't squeeze with KJs. What range is he even 3betting with? Is KQs doing well vs that range? Does not seem maybe this is a 1 off hand, but he doesn't seem LAG at all. Looks like a rec who massively overplays his hands postflop with 4x pot shoves when checked to. Even a TAG will squeeze KJs pre. It sounds like you want this guy at your table.
