1/3 - AKs facing 5B jam, >400bb deep

I don't play in this type of 1/3 NL game, ldo, but in my game this would be a trivial fold with KK, let alone AKs. In fact, in my game this could literally never happen... as we have a maximum raise size of $800 (it's possible this might be $1000 now, I don't know, I think it's been over a half dozen years since I've seen the actually rule come into play). So, yeah, when the max raise size goes in my game, it's AA 99% of the time and a misread A4 the other 1% of the time.

But, your 1/3 NL game might play different. ETA: And based on results, it obviously does.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I'm not trying to defend my decision to call based on what V actually had. I didn't say what the river was, and I don't think it matters, because the run-out is going to be the run-out, whatever it is, but we don't know what it will be pre-flop.

It may have been a mistake to 4B at all, and it was probably a mistake to 4B as large as I did. But once the 4B is made, that decision is past. I wanted to see how people here would handle the decision to call or fold facing the 5B.

It's not too surprising to see many people saying it's a fold. My sense is that a lot of people here are on the tighter side, and the player pool reads skew towards the 5B being pretty nutted. I was okay with the decision to call because I had confidence in my read, and figured I was being laid the correct odds to call it off, even as a 46% dog.

I do appreciate everyone's input about the 4B. I think in the future I'll be taking a more conservative approach in spots like this, by flat calling more, or if I do 4B, I'll use a smaller size that will allow me to fold if my opponent decides to 5B jam.

The 3bet may be a little tighter than normal as you raised over two limpers as opposed to a straight button open, but even so you are going to be isoing wide and if SB is somewhat active he will be 3betting wide. People are far too prone to lazily saying "it's low stakes so nobody 3bets without the nuts" but button vs SB you're going to see plenty of action whatever the stakes. A 4bet here is absolutely standard and good even at 400BB, we just need to make it a little smaller to make it an easier fold to the jam - and also to keep in dominated hands ie AQ, AJ, KQ (mostly of the suited variety). That's where being low stakes may become relevant, because people will absolutely make calling mistakes facing a 4bet at low stakes.

Even with the reveal I prefer a fold, 3bets are far more common in these sorts of situations than people are saying, but 5bets at 400BB deep are going to be pretty uncommon and most of the time your praying for a chop, if someone flips over A5s then just say chapeau sir. Not many people are jamming TT for 400BB.

Reads, especially those which are not well-founded, should sway your decisions in close spots or cause you to make slight deviations to your strategy. I think your play in this hand (4bet/getting it in for 400+ BB with AKs) is a pretty big deviation from good strategy in live low stakes cash games. There actually seems to be total consensus ITT from a wide range of players (some of whom [not me] are very well-studied and/or professionals) that the play was a mistake. There are Villains against whom this play is going to be losing hundreds of big blinds in EV because their range is KK+ or stronger. I don't think you should make deviations like that based on a read that you made against a complete unknown.

I appreciate all that, as well as the credit you're giving me for speaking French (I don't, but V doesn't need to know that).

I think the decision to 4B was defensible here, given the stack depths. I regret the sizing, which, in hindsight, I think may have been a bit "scared money" - it's a size that would commit me to calling off a jam, rather than put me in a position where I'd have to angry-fold AKs and lose $200. I definitely see the value in keeping his worse hands in.

It seems like many of us have a hard time effectively communicating our reads in such a way that people reading can get on board with the decisions made. Even though this guy had over $1400 when I sat down, I got the sense that he must have gotten lucky a few times, and wasn't really all that good.

He picked up shortly after this hand. Not sure if he table-changed and rat-holed his profits, or if he just left, but it goes to support my read that he wasn't good enough to feel comfortable playing deep. If I was running good and sitting on 900BB's, you'd have to pull the fire alarm to get me to leave the table.

Some of these east coast US games play really loosey goosey IME. I think you're flipping at best as this is really never AJs or AQ. I would fold. I don't mind the 4-bet attacking the weak 3-bet sizing. If you had an insane image then its a comfortable call off. The other aspect is you're probably a really good player in SB's perspective as you study the game, people in my room (that respect my game and know they suck at poker) often shove in these spots to avoid playing post-flop, they might do this as wide as TT but it's never really AQ or AJs unless he's been losing, then it could be a punt. Again, I fold.

edit: nice reveal, I dont fault a call but buckle up

Sometimes my image is insane, but it's all relative. I've heard plenty of comments from limp-happy opponents who get frustrated with my mostly raise-or-fold pre flop strat. "This guy is raising every hand" when it's more like 2 or at most 3 hands per orbit. I don't argue with them, just laugh internally at how bad they play as I stack chips.

This particular game was very loose when I sat down. In fact, I requested to table change to this specific table because another reg told me it was a good game, and I could see a few very deep stacks on the table, sitting in front of recs who had simply run good to that point, and were likely to press their luck.

I view this like AA vs KK, where KK is going to win 20% of the time. I'm supposed to go lose here 54% of the time, and win 46% of the time. Getting over 1.6 to 1, I'm never folding AKs to a 1/3 rec who seems capable of over-playing a PP, AKo, or whatever.

The takeaway isn't folding in this spot, it's just flatting or 4B'ing to a smaller size.

Want to bring up something new not talked about

Why are we ! To only 25 when we see 2 limps? With any ! Wit 2 limps it needs to be 30-40 imo

Isn’t 25 small

Depends on the table. 25 at 2 limpers might get all folds sometimes. I personally don't like going real big, as it defines your range more and sometimes you take it preflop.

OP probably had an aggressive image, based on his other posts. He went from 500 to 1200 in an hour. 75 to 300 is not a normal 4! size. With AA/KK, most players wouldn't risk taking it preflop. He can't flat call and see the flop for 300, so he shoves and hopes to get a fold or gii a little ahead. I don't think the shove is a good play, but it is partly thinking he is being pushed around and not liking to fold a premium hand.

Seems like the push and call both may be bad plays, but both players were going on reads and both didn't want to reraise and fold premium hands.

A lot of people at 1/3 will not 4! with KK or maybe AA. Maybe they think it will fold out weaker hands. It is also the mentality of low stakes players to see a flop.

In this situation, if you don't want your 4! range to just be AA/KK, you can sometimes bluff with Axs, suited broadway or something, and then you can easily fold to a 5!. However, most people are not 3-betting light and will flat call a normal sized 4! with most of their range. 4-betting AKs is reasonable against someone you know is 3-betting a lot.

I don't like the large sizing with AKs, as you don't mind taking it down preflop, and you are giving your opponent accurate information that you aren't that strong. Then you don't know what to do to a 5!.

I appreciate all that. Well put. Agree with pretty much all of it.

My wife has accused me of emanating aggressive energy. A former co-worker once told me if he had to describe me in one word, it would be "intense". I've reined it in a bit as I've gotten older, but I'm sure I still give off an alpha-male sort of vibe that can induce some push-back at the table.

Unless this was a tournament which it is not I really do not like AK suited enough to flip almost ever. I would have flatted pre for sure and had no problem folding that board. AK has lost me much money in cash games over the years I really hate the hand tbh. Probably unsolicited advice but still that's just my feelings about it.

Thank you for your thoguhts I would never ! Big knowing we have a good player behind to avoid 3! But your aggro image makes a good point. But if we are gonna ! Limpers with any hand we want to ! Regardless are still gonna size it just to get HU and attack limpers.

But I get your point it makes sense and I’ll take something away from it

As far as making it 40 at two limpers, you do get a better result if it goes HU to the flop or 4-ways anyway with a bigger pot. However, 13x BB is awfully big at 2 limpers and you might take the $9 pot. Depends on your image, the limpers, and how the table is playing.

It sort of defines your range accurately as JJ+/AK. Even if they are bad players, I don't like to play that way and give so much information.

With OP's image though, the big raise might be more likely to get called, and they might not be so sure he had a big hand.

Yeah, at high stakes, 4! and call the shove probably would be best.