[LOW] $2/$5 Bomb Pot
So playing at a new spot while traveling. Table has been doing bomb pots for pretty much any reason though for some reas
What if anything is the difference between a $25 bomb pot and a 2-5 $200 splash pot?
A splash pot has pre-flop action; a bomb pot does not.
So if eight people see the flop in a splash pot, wouldn’t their hands tend to be much stronger than in an eight handed bomb pot?
I just don’t understand why we’re giving V a flopped straight or set here. My thought in either is “free money, how do I steal it”. If I jam KTo preflop in a splash and get 44 & A3s to fold, that’s huge value. If I lose, oh well, we’re in a casino. “It’s called gambling, you should try it some time.” - Amarillo Slim
A9 has to be ahead at least 90% of the time here. Why does H call the flop and then not love Ax on the turn? It’s literally the best card he could catch! And some are suggesting H fold the turn?
Where do people play tighter in bomb pots because I want to go there.
BTW this thread is prima facie proof that bomb & splash pot should be double board PLO. And it’s time for the results from OP.
I honestly don't understand what point you are making? In a bomb pot, they can have anything. Literally: any two cards. The straight/set combos in this hand are weak holdings, so you are contradicting yourself.
If it were a splash pot and they all got to limp in, yes, they could have the same weak range, but still weak, not strong. Seriously, what point are you trying to make? That 56 is a strong hand? That he can't have a set because it's a limped pot?
The only way a splash pot could have "stronger" hands is if someone raises pre, but then you don't usually have eight players going to the flop unless they are just gambling. And then they could have anything. LOL.
A9 has to be ahead at least 90% of the time here. Why does H call the flop and then not love Ax on the turn? It’s literally the best card he could catch! And some are suggesting H fold the turn?
We fold because we are behind 55, 88, 99, AA, and 56 -- not to mention some combo draws, there are tons of rivers we hate (like this one), and he bet 2/3 pot showing tons of strength.
BTW, the reason I play poker is because I'm not there to gamble. If that's your intent, by all means go for it.
I honestly don't understand what point you are making? In a bomb pot, they can have anything. Literally: any two cards. The straight/set combos in this hand are weak holdings (Ed: I assume you mean on the river), so you are contradicting yourself.
Yes, everyone has anything. And that anything includes 12 combos of T2o another 12 combos. of J3o ... etc. etc. etc.
Yes, people have the 7 combos. of sets on the flop and 16 combos. of the nuts but that is dwarfed by just the 110ish combos. of worse one pair hands.
Top pair top kicker is _very_ high in everyone's range on the flop, top two on the turn is so strong it's basically the nuts without reads.
Maybe people really are just x/f 92o (or even T9o) on the flop, and will bet small on flop and then x/f KK HU on the turn. Then, sure fold flop or turn but also I hope you are capable of working out a strat. to bluff everyone off these giant bomb pots when they don't have the nuts the other 99% of the time (would be very unshocked if LJ has that strat. and that's why he considers himself an amazing pro).
Once he bets $250 on the A turn, we should start wondering what in the world is going on. We have no reads, so we can't think, "Oh, this guys always tries to steal bomb pots, " or "This guy is a maniac and will do this w/ anything, " or even "This guy is a nit." We have nothing but a vulnerable hand. If you want to call the turn, fine, then go ahead and call the river. Heck, we should shove the turn.
W/o reads, I'll save my 300bb for more than a gamble.
Someone should start a Bomb/Splash Pot Strategy Containment Thread because we have obviously good experienced players itt with wildly divergent ideas on how to play them.
I do think we need to factor into V’s play that H is a tourist who just sat down and may have questioned why the bomb pot wasn’t DBPLO.
I don't understand V's 1/3 flop and 3/4 turn bets, what changed?
I'm also confused about the poster saying A9 is ahead 90% of the time, that runout is crazy wet and many draws made it. Top 2 isn't gonna cut it unless V is a maniac. I'm folding otr.
😃
I will say folding the turn is much better than calling, but in that case why not fold on the flop? It IS a very wet board that would hit a ton of hands
Spoiler
like Ac9c
Personally, I probably do fold the flop.
And I definitely gamble some, but not like this and for 300bb. He's not writing about bomb pots. LOL.
Personally, I probably do fold the flop.
And I definitely gamble some, but not like this and for 300bb. He's not writing about bomb pots. LOL.
First chapter in SS3.
Folding flop is fine esp if V is SB and H utg. But Ax on the turn HU is an autojam imo. What other card is H hoping for, 7/6c?
Flop bet = half the table checked, we have enough to bet and want folds for the giant pile of money in the middle (most of range for everybody has to fold for even this size, esp. the ones who haven't acted yet). Go small and see how many fold, and/or if anyone x/r for cheap.
Turn bet = lol, only one tourist fish to get through and he was heavily incentivized to raise flop with top set or the nuts, or even NFD, so go bigger now as he'll fold almost (or for some ITT all of) his entire range.
Ofc. it's possible V has something like Ah2h/A8/A7/A6/A5, where he's just kind of just betting his equity/hand on flop+turn.
I'm also confused about the poster saying A9 is ahead 90% of the time, that runout is crazy wet and many draws made it. Top 2 isn't gonna cut it unless V is a maniac. I'm folding otr.
I think 90% is a slight exaggeration, but as I said before go put betting ranges for V into something and compare vs. A9 on turn. We have 65% if V hardly bluffs and never value bets one pair on the turn.
I don't understand V's 1/3 flop and 3/4 turn bets, what changed?
I'm also confused about the poster saying A9 is ahead 90% of the time, that runout is crazy wet and many draws made it. Top 2 isn't gonna cut it unless V is a maniac. I'm folding otr.
I meant 90% favorite on the turn, probably exaggerated.
Just to close this out I did fold river. Didn't get a reveal. I was mainly wondering about my turn action but seems there is no consensus on which is the best play in this spot. Thanks all!
Am I the only one who wants to fold flop? There are not a lot of runouts we’re going to like, there are still a lot of players who could flat or raise flop, we could be drawing really thin etc.
As played I like just calling turn though shoving can’t be bad. I think we can get away from gross rivers like this, while possibly getting him to bluff some missed combo draws. We can also make a healthy river bet if he checks on a blank.
As played river is an obvious fold.
Am I the only one who wants to fold flop? There are not a lot of runouts we’re going to like, there are still a lot of players who could flat or raise flop, we could be drawing really thin etc.As played I like just calling turn though shoving can’t be bad. I think we can get away from gross rivers like this, while possibly getting him to bluff some missed combo draws. We can al
V's flop bet is too weak to not call esp IP. I'm worried about the turn sizing and I can't tell you how many of these spots I've been in where it looks like I've improved but I ran into some ridiculous flopped set or stronger. Ott is where I'd consider folding because we know V is probably going to go for it otr and we'd fold unless we hit our 4 outer.
Am I the only one who wants to fold flop? There are not a lot of runouts we’re going to like, there are still a lot of players who could flat or raise flop, we could be drawing really thin etc.As played I like just calling turn though shoving can’t be bad. I think we can get away from gross rivers like this, while possibly getting him to bluff some missed combo draws. We can al
Folding flop to V's small bet size, given the flush draw on board, seems a tad nitty, but not unreasonable. May I ask about your reasoning for wanting to fold flop, but then considering jamming the turn? Would we be jamming top 2P for value, or as a bluff, hoping to boat up?
I would think if we had designs on bluffing, the better line would be calling turn, to possibly bluff river on a flush run-out, if V checks a flopped straight or set.
Folding flop to V's small bet size, given the flush draw on board, seems a tad nitty, but not unreasonable. May I ask about your reasoning for wanting to fold flop, but then considering jamming the turn? Would we be jamming top 2P for value, or as a bluff, hoping to boat up? I would think if we had designs on bluffing, the better line would be calling turn, to possibly bluff ri
On the flop there are a lot of hands that are crushing us or flipping with us and their equity went down on the turn. Namely draws and flopped 2 pair. Equity denial is a thing and making him fold or call with a combo draw is a win either way.
On the flop there are a lot of hands that are crushing us or flipping with us and their equity went down on the turn. Namely draws and flopped 2 pair. Equity denial is a thing and making him fold or call with a combo draw is a win either way.
Fair points.
I may have played three bomb pots ever, so definitely not very experienced with them.
Judging by what I've seen in vlogs, it seems like it's best to play defensively / cautiously with non-nutted hands. So I'd be most concerned about not getting stacks in against flopped straights, rather than hoping to deny equity from a player who I'd think would be cautious about semi-bluffing into seven opponents with a draw.
I wonder about the implied odds implications of coolering a worse 2P like 98 or 95 or a lower set if the river is another 9. I'd think we might not want to raise turn if those hands fold out, and only straights continue.
Am I the only one who wants to fold flop? There are not a lot of runouts we’re going to like, there are still a lot of players who could flat or raise flop, we could be drawing really thin etc.
My guess is that you've played a lot of PLO bomb pots, or PLO DBBP, and not many NLHE bomb pots?
And with PLO bomb pots you often want to follow the simple advise of just have the nuts or have good draws to the nuts, where even large combo. draws can be very bad if you aren't HU. This works out because other people will call bad draws or make bad two pair etc. and you can win big pots.
But NLHE you just don't get the nuts often enough, and people can't call flop and hit something worse when a random Q or J comes on the turn.
If we had AcKcK9 on 9h8c5h in a PLO bomb pot, then I agree just fold flop. We could be drawing almost dead already, it's rarely getting better for us and we have no visibility.
But Ac9c on 9h8c5h in NLHE bomb pot is _very_ different. hh is very unlikely (1 in 16 of unpaired hands) dito. having a 7 and a 6. Ac9c has a bit more equity vs. 85 than KK does ... and KK is a very strong hand in NLHE bomb pots.
Some rough numbers:
Ac9c vs. 7 people in PLO: H has 16.9% and the world has 13.9% each.
Ac9c vs. 7 people in NLHE: H has 24.8% and the world has 12.5% each (and again even that looks higher than reality because people aren't calling J2 or even J5 on the flop to a turn J anywhere near as much in NLHE).
Ac9c vs. 6* HU in PLO: H has 51.2% and V has 48.8%
Ac9c vs. 6* HU in NLHE: H has 67% and V has 33%
Ac9c vs. 6h* HU in PLO: H has 47% and V has 53%
Ac9c vs. 6h* HU in NLHE: H has 62% and V has 38%
Still not saying we need to snap pile in 1.5k on the flop, but folding seems like a bigger error.
My guess is that you've played a lot of PLO bomb pots, or PLO DBBP, and not many NLHE bomb pots?And with PLO bomb pots you often want to follow the simple advise of just have the nuts or have good draws to the nuts, where even large combo. draws can be very bad if you aren't HU. This works out because other people will call bad draws or make bad two pair etc. and you can win bi
I didn’t realize tptk is so strong multi way. Yes almost all my bomb pots are plo and it’s nuts or fold.
That said the hand vs range equities don’t matter much because we’re going 2 or 3 ways with the top of range.
You say draws might not bet flop but that seems like it happened here. Probably nfd or combo with pair or gutter.
Are you shipping turn?
villain sizing on flop is a bit small for such a dynamic texture, I agree xr the turn is a reasonable/good option
honestly river seems kind of close, since villain might take this exact line with worse 2p and a few semi-bluffs (t7?). It's also easy for him to start overbluffing here, especially if he is stabbing the flop occasionally with weaker gutshots and combo draws.
