GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

Liar

Carrying the scoring load = 10 ppg or more than all teammates for playoffs and championship level (Finals)

This would include 84' Bird, 94' Hakeem, 00' Shaq, 03' Duncan, 06' Wade, 15' Curry, 22' Curry, 09' Kobe, 10' Kobe, and MJ's 6 rings.

Again, ball-dominators are too ball-dominant at high scoring levels, so they can't carry the scoring load vs top teams.. That's why Lebron never carried the scoring load on the championship level, and also never carried weak help over top teams (never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick).

Without scoring 10ppg more than the next teammate, Bron still managed to win 4 championships and 4 MVPs and beat top teams.

Scoring 10ppg more than your next teammate is not a needed requirement to win championships and FMVPs, and therefore we can automatically dismiss the scoring load argument as anything that is relevant in these discussions.

Kyrie Irving scoring 27ppg in 2016 finals against 73 win team, 7ppg higher than his 2016 average and higher still than career averages = proof LeBron elevates his teammates at the highest stage.

We can summarily dismiss all fallguy arguments that LeBron craters his teammates.

This is too easy.

I win, you lose.

Nonsense... 9 different perimeter players won DPOY and Pippen isn't one of them.

This doesn't alone put him out of the top 5, but it's decent evidence... MJ, Payton and Kawhi have clear cases ahead of him, while Rodman does as well... He's borderline top 5 at best.

No one in the top 75 was consistently carried statistically or never achieved elite scoring, rebounds or assists...

Only Pippen.

Pippen is the only top 75 player that was a carried bum and simply inflated by the winning spotlight.

A secondary producer like Klay or Pippen would never be asked to build a team from scratch (franchise player), and Pippen only briefly inherited a 1st option role by being handed the goat dynasty in 1994... But since he wasn't really a 1st option or franchise player, the goat dynasty quickly cratered to barely .500 in less than 18 months, at which point Pippen was begging the real franchise player to return and restore a 3-peat.

History shows that secondary producers and carried sidekicks like Klay, Pau, Parker, Ginobili and Pippen need the winning spotlight of titles to make All-NBA, while truly dominant players like AD, KAT, Bosh and Love make All-NBA without any playoff success because everyone knows they're elite producers that are building bad teams from scratch.

He came before wilt ?
Wilt lost like 5 times vs him …being the incredibly scorers he is and yet got crush , why ?

And please don’t say KD is better either …. The only way he won was able to win is to join with the mvp of the league and one of the greatest , if not the greatest, backcourt ever ….
KD is a perennial loser being the great scorer he is that u praise so much . ..

So KD better style better scorer -> 2 ring , wilt same thing -> 2 rings only .
Russel the exception because you said so ?
Ok then Kareem at #4 , was he ever vastly the leading scorer with all the defense attention on him ?? lol no -> another that should have an exception too ?

Wtf ….vut her lebron 4 rings , 4 final mvp -> nah he suck’s ….

I told u since the beginning you will never find all top 10 players that fit your criteria better then lebron !
And , wtf , couldn’t u just get lebron a pass like u do to all other all time great ?
The hate in you and the nonsense u keep trying to fit data that just doesn’t it’s just amazing ….

I’m done , u just have no freakn clue wtf u talking about and can’t even provide one go damn line of thinking or set of data that agrees about your theories ….

Your crazy talk about LeBron not top 10 just discredit the last 10 years u wrote in this thread .
The day u admit u are wrong about level top 10 I will listen to you again …

Fellas, it's okay that you never saw the best and instead saw a guy that never evolved out of simpleton, AAU chemistry, while lacking the IQ and hoops instinct to play well off other good players like Luka, Wade, AD, and others.. Hence the underachievement of favored rosters, such as losing with preseason favorites for 6 straight years (11-16'), or falling to underdog.. In addition to Lebron's bad chemistry having the effect of underperforming favored rosters, it has a losing record with every type of good team, such as preseason favorites, Finals teams, all-star teammates, 1 or 2 seeds, and 3 losses with homecourt.. By virtue of underachieving favored rosters more than anyone ever did, and also losing the most with good teams, Lebron is the biggest loser of all-time.

Bought to you by the era that couldn't work out 3>2.

Huh?
He won 3 rings ffs and in 2015 Kyrie dindt freakn play .
Man no idea what u smoke but it’s gooodddddd .

Yeah, he doesn't understand odds.

Literally showed him that LeBron has out-performed his odds as a pre-season favourite.

Still doesn't understand.

His reply to trying to work out what return you get when you win was really bad. I mean, on par for him, but really bad.

Scottie Pippen led the Bulls to a 55 win season and was 3rd in MVP voting during the year Michael Jordan was too busy batting .203 in AA

In the 10 games that year that Scottie missed, the Bulls went 4-6

They were 51-21 when he played. That's an elite team. And Fallguy will try to tell you Jordan dragged a bunch of scrubs to championships.

The 94' Bulls were scrubs that won via 3-peat chemistry.

They were the only team in the league that lacked a 2nd scorer, while every other team had 2nd scorers, and the contenders had 3rd, 4th, and 5th scorers.

Everyone knew this in the 90's, but 30 years later it's been distorted so that other team's "rejects" like Steve Kerr are made to look like star players, or bench players on expansion teams like Longley or BJ.. The only reason that anyone knows who they are is because MJ dragged that trash to titles - they were otherwise rejects (kerr) or bench players from other teams (longley, bj, cartwright).

So the 94' Bulls were propped up by 3-peat chemistry and a honeymoon period where no one cared to play them without MJ - a massive letdown for every opponent.. But the "real" Bulls without MJ were exposed in the playoffs and barely .500 in 1995 before MJ returned.. Pippen wasn't really a franchise player that could grow teams, so he destroyed the goat dynasty to barely .500 (and heading south fast) in less than 18 months.

Throughout the 90's, the Bulls were the only contender that lacked a 3rd scorer... The 3rd options of contenders during the 1st three-peat were 2x or 3x all-stars like Nance, Majerle, Aguirre, Duckworth and Buck Williams, while the Lakers had HOF Vlade Divac and Sam Perkins (who both averaged 17/9 and killed Horace in the 91' Finals), or a perennial 20 ppg scorer in Byron Scott.... Meanwhile, Jerome Kersey was a perennial 20 ppg scorer for the Blazers, in addition to the aforementioned Buck Williams and Duckworth, while Ainge was another 20 ppg scorer and 1x all-star off the bench..

The Bulls never had depth like this, and it wasn't until the 2nd three-peat that they had 3rd scorer like Kukoc or former 20 ppg scorer like Harper... But by that time, they were playing 4 on 5 with Rodman and an old Pippen (17 on 41% for entire 96-98' Playoffs).. This is a stark contrast to opponents that had 5 and 6 veteran scorers that averaged 20 at some point in their careers, such as the 92' Knicks with X-Man, Starks, Mason, Charles Smith, Gerald Wilkins and Mark Jackson (plus Oakley and Ewing) - these are all veteran scorers, while the 92' Bulls only had 2 scorers, which is why they barely beat those Knicks.. (edit: oakley not a scorer).

No one lost more with preseason favorites than Lebron (3-4)...

No one lost more with Final teams (4-6)...

He's also 4-7 with all-star teammates and 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds, so he's a perennial loser in his prime and with help - a loser with every type of good team.

this isn't top 10 caliber, let alone goat caliber lol what a delusion

Kyrie didn't play in the 2018 ECF, yet you guys worship Lebron for beating an injured team, so why doesn't Curry get credit for 2015 Finals?

It's a clear double standard.... And it's because Lebron is a fraud that has been forced onto the public by an already-proven fraudulent media.

Heck, Jameer Nelson was hurt in the 09' ECF, so Dwight had the injury excuse that the 15' Cavs or 18' Celtics had, but still won!!!

So there's no excuse for Lebron losing the 15' Finals, since he was a smaller underdog (+220) than the 09' Magic (+700)... The only reason that Lebron lost is because he played exactly like Allen Iverson with horrific efficiency at high volume and zero defense - this allowed an 8 ppg bench player to average 16 and win FMVP... Due to this horrific performance, Lebron became the 1st guy since 1991 to lose to a team where everyone was a 1st-timer in the Finals.

you named zero examples of sidekicks that averaged 27+ in the Finals, while Lebron has 3 examples in his career alone (1-2).

you named 4 examples of 26+ going back to the 60's, while Lebron has 4 examples in his career alone (2-2).

Bear in mind that Scottie Pippen was a superior scorer and overall offensive player without Michael Jordan on the team:

Scottie Pippen 1990-91 to 1992-93 (with Jordan)

Average ppg = 19.13
Average TS% = .542
Average offensive BPM = 3.3

Scottie Pippen 1993-94 and 1994-95 (no Jordan)

Average ppg = 21.7
Average TS% = .5515
Average offensive BPM = 4.45

Scottie Pippen 1995-96 to 1997-98 (with Jordan)

Average ppg = 19.57
Average TS% = .546
Average offensive BPM = 4.067

So Pippen averaged 12.1% more ppg without Jordan than with. And his offensive BPM was 20.8% higher without Jordan than with.

This conclusively refutes the narrative that having Michael Jordan, a highly assisted volume scorer, on the roster somehow improves teammate offensive output.

Why did fallguy come to the opposite conclusion, you make ask? It’s because he lies about the data, cherry picks favorable data points, and leaves out entire seasons worth of data that do not support his narrative.

You're comparing a partially pre-prime Pippen to Pippen's peak, which is wrong, so we need to compare Pippen's peak in 1994 (22.0 and 5.6 APG) to his peak alongside Jordan in 1992 (21.0 and 7.0 APG).

Accordingly, Pippen's raw PPG + APG was higher alongside Jordan, while the slightly higher advanced stats deal with his higher usage from being 1st option.

In contrast to Pippen's PPG and advanced stats barely changing and his APG increasing alongside MJ, guys like Wade and Love saw their PPG, APG and advanced stats crater alongside Lebron (along with Bosh, Jamison, Hughes, Ingram, Westbrook and many more)... Since Lebron's bad chemistry craters teammates, he has losing records with every type of good roster, such a preseason favorites, Finals teams, all-star teammates, and top seeds (1 or 2 seeds).

Using your own numbers of comparing a partially pre-prime Pippen to his peak years:

Summary

* Without Jordan, Pippen averaged 12% more scoring but 17% less assists

* Without Lebron, Wade averaged 12% more scoring and 54% more assists

The reason that Lebron lowers everyone's assists is because this ball-dominance turns everyone into spot-up shooter, i.e. increases their assisted rate, which has a negative correlation with a player's assists and creates lower assist teams over time.... This dynamic of Lebron imposing spot-up roles and lowering everyone's assists is the Achilles heel of his game, since every series loss of his playoff career shows deficits in team assists (except the 11' Finals).

Btw, Wade is among the most generous cases because Love, Bosh, Jamison, Hughes, and many more show massive declines in scoring (along with the massive declines in their assists).

Btw, just a reminder that I predicted the Lakers demise and that the ball-dominator duo of Luka/Lebron have weak chemistry, can't beat the top teams, and wouldn't win this year

Only FG would boast after a game LeBron gets injured.

Lakers are 15 to 1 (If you aren't sure how these types of odds work PM me and I'll give you my 12 year old nephews number and he'll walk you through it), so they aren't expected to win it.

Including lies to explain why you cherry pick does not justify cherry picking. You deliberately left out 1993 because that was Pippen’s worst year, statistically.

As you yourself have said before, since you have to lie, you lost.

Fallguy, predicting the Lakers will win the title, after a winning streak.

Also fallguy, claiming that he predicted the Lakers demise, after they lost to the Celtics.

Weasel rat, incapable of telling the truth. Arguing every side, so that no matter what happens, he can go back and quote a post, claiming he was right (while leaving out the 500 posts he was wrong in, just like how he cherry picks the data to lie and support whatever narrative he wants).