GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
1) Everyone says MJ would average 50 in today's beginner format, so Harden's numbers are bad compared to MJ and no one respects them... This includes you, since you only brought up Harden after losing the Lebron "discussion" (there's no "debate" - it's just me educating you on the facts).
2) lower burden = higher efficiency
3) scoring help = higher efficiency
4) Many other players would average close to 40 like Harden if they played the worst brand of basketball ever to get those numbers like Harden did.
5) Let's see Harden get those numbers while playing better defense than anyone ever played up to that point (200 steals and 100 blocks)
Accordingly, you just don't understand basketball (chemistry), so you can't discern the worst brand ever from anything else.
The fact MJ scored a larger percentage of his team points is actually a bad thing for MJ. Proving MJ doesn't make his team better. Harden's better efficiency giving his team mates more opportunities as well (more shots to go around).
Jordan scored the biggest percentage ever because he had a rebounder at 2nd option, while Harden had a top 5 all-time point guard and 2 other pippen-level scorers in Egordo and Capela at 16-17 ppg..
Jordan would obviously 3-peat with all this help, while Harden did nothing because he employed the worst brand of ball ever... This is all common sense... Harden nearly beat the goat team but MJ would've HAVE the goat team with an all-time PG plus 2 pippens.
So Jordan only repeats then, but actually he would still 3-peat because those Rockets had three Pippen's with 16-17 ppg, and Jordan only needs 1.
Harden simply underachieved massively with those squads compared to Jordan.... And it's because Harden has the worst brand of ball ever - only Harden and Luka have worse ball-dominance than Lebron.. Harden's style desecrated the game
Of course no acknowledgement how wrong you were when repeatedly stating he won 45-50 games when he won 65 (!) and 53 (after winning 55 the year prior). Even after telling me I was wrong in my facts.
No "my bad," just powers through to fling more bullshit.
The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.
You're living in the right era for it tho. It's sad how many adults act like you nowadays.
Maybe peak FG is him bragging about MJ defending Payton for 2 of the 6 games in the Finals, and... check notes... those 2 games are 2 of the top 3 games Payton played in the 6 game series.
Jordan defended Payton because Harper got hurt, otherwise Jordan would not have had that extra burden put on him, while still carrying the scoring load and a 15 on 34% sidekick.
Nonetheless, Jordan still contained Payton, while Payton would've eaten Pippen for lunch in a head-to-head matchup because Pippen couldn't guard quick ball-handlers and most of Pippen's matchups destroyed him - Penny, X-Man, Dominique, Rice, Larry Johnson, Juwan Howard, Tracy Murray, Detlef Schrempf, Nance, Johnny Newman and many more destroyed Pippen, and Payton is better than nearly all of them... Again, Pippen has zero examples of locking anyone up as the primary defender, so he's clearly overrated on both sides of the ball.
Of course no acknowledgement how wrong you were when repeatedly stating he won 45-50 games when he won 65 (!) and 53 (after winning 55 the year prior). Even after telling me I was wrong in my facts.
You weren't right.
Harden won 53 and 46 games in his 2 high-scoring years, which is what we were talking about.
But the ultimate point is that you guys say "Harden almost beat a goat team", but Jordan would HAVE the goat team with a top 5 all-time point guard and 2 other pippen-level scorers at 16-17 ppg.
The reason that Harden did so horribly with more help than Jordan ever had is due to Harden's worst-ever brand of ball and playing style that desecrates of the game.. It was literally the worst basketball that anyone ever played, which is why he did nothing with more help than MJ ever had.
Okay, then you were wrong to list Chris Paul as a teammate in his two high scoring years.
I corrected you specifically listing him as a teammate and only winning a middling number of games.
But again, power through with never conceding anything.
I also like the clip of Jordan playing such great defense on Grant that Horace has to step up to cut off the open lane slowing Grant down. Then Grant still makes the shot, and Jordan was lucky not to be called for a foul.
grant BLOWS BY pippen like he's in kindergarten, while MJ makes Grant work... Ditto Kobe.
You can actually watch the highlights to that game and see that Pippen cannot handle Hill and asks MJ to take over for him...
From a scoring standpoint... It's common knowledge that Pippen was a system player with average scoring ability and worst-ever efficiency/lane-clogging
And Capela was a rich man's Horace, while CP3 was a goat-level point guard.. That's more help than MJ ever had, yet Harden did nothing.
I like how he's constantly citing what "everyone knows." But when everyone knows Pippen was a great defender it's obviously lolwrong and think for yourself.
You wanna compare "common knowledge" about Pippen to your opinion of him? Well no, that's only when it suits you.
Joking aside, the bottom line is I just need to know what George Lynch thinks of him.
Okay, then you were wrong to list Chris Paul as a teammate in his two high scoring years.
I corrected you specifically listing him as a teammate and only winning a middling number of games.
But again, power through with never conceding anything.
Harden had more help than Jordan ever had but did nothing.
He had a top 5 all-time point guard (CP3) and a rich man's Horace (Capela), while also having a 3rd pippen-level scorer (Gordon)..... Yet nothing, smh...
Heck, this bum couldn't win with KD!!!.. So maybe you should find another guy to compare to Jordan because I'm just getting started on Harden and it's gonna get ugly - Harden sucked
Oh, here's a George Lynch quote about MJ being a piece of ****.
Their summer camps allowed North Carolina’s college prospects to face off against some of the most premier talent in the world and soak up their experience first-hand. “The rules were the pros make the rules; what the games go to, who gets to play first and all that,” Lynch revealed on ‘Run Your Race’.
In his patented competitive fashion, the Chicago Bulls legend used his advantage to create an underdog team. He would only select junior varsity players and walk-ons to raise the stakes at the summer training camps. “And we losing every game,” Lynch added.
“My sophomore year, we beat him once. So, the rule at Carolina was, if you beat the pros, they take you to dinner.”
For NCAA players with little to no money, a dinner at the expense of NBA stars would certainly be a rewarding experience. Lynch, for one, was excited to cash in after beating Jordan and his team, but the joy would be short-lived as one of his teammates made the mistake of trash-talking MJ.
King Rice, a former Tar Heels guard-turned-coach, began mouthing off at Mike. Naturally, #23 took that personally. “The next 7 games, we didn’t even get close to beating him,” Lynch recalled. “The lineup was me, Hubert Davis, Rick Fox, King Rice and Scott Williams. We couldn’t beat walk-ons and Mike.”
As impressed as George was by MJ’s sheer dominance, he still wanted his due. Unfortunately, it’s a due that remains uncleared 30 years later. Jordan told the winning team to meet him at a restaurant near UNC and by Lynch’s account, he never showed up.
Harden had more help than Jordan ever had but did nothing.He had a top 5 all-time point guard (CP3) and a rich man's Horace (Capela), while also having a 3rd pippen-level scorer (Gordon)..... Yet nothing, smh... Heck, this bum couldn't win with KD!!!.. So maybe you should find another guy to compare to Jordan because I'm just getting started on Harden and it's gonna get ugly -
This is sad.
It's okay to be wrong. It was a little thing, just be wrong.
I like how he's constantly citing what "everyone knows." But when everyone knows Pippen was a great defender it's obviously lolwrong and think for yourself.
You wanna compare "common knowledge" about Pippen to your opinion of him? Well no, that's only when it suits you.
Joking aside, the bottom line is I just need to know what George Lynch thinks of him.
Pippen couldn't stay in front of quick ball-handlers and was torched in the majority of H2H matchups, while never locking anyone down as the primary defender...
So here's the reality - Pippen's offense wasn't laudable, so the media simply got accustomed to citing Pippen's defense, which drastically overrated his defense over time.
I wasn't wrong... Fidstar introduced the topic about Harden's peak scoring ability, which was 2019 and 2020 - that's where the 53 and 46 games came from.
Otoh, you cited his years with CP3, which were a black mark due to zero titles.. Harden had more help than Jordan ever had but did nothing.. And of course, he couldn't win with KD..
Ultimately, I've destroyed Lebron so severely that we're arguing bums like Harden.. And he's the only guy (and Luka) that actually dominate the ball more than Lebron, so you managed to find the only guy with an even worse brand of ball.
jfc
The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.
Reread the exchange. You brought up CP3 and I responded to you.
First of all, every coach, player and media says that Jordan would average 50 in today's game... So I'll take their word that the hands-off, spaced-out, open paint, "beginner format" makes a big difference.Secondly, who knows how many points MJ would average if just brought the ball up and went 1-on-1 with the lowest assisted rate and brand of ball the game has ever seen, while
Now, who brought up and cited CP3 between the two of us?
You've got serious pride/ego issues if you can't concede this, and this is my second/third time around on something pretty damn straightforward.
You: He only won 45-50 games with CP3
Me: He won 65 and 52
You: Not the years we're talking about
Me: The only years CP3 was there they won 65 and 52
You: We're talking about different years
Me: Then don't mention CP3 bc he wasn't on the team
You: I was right, you brought up CP3
Why is this hard to follow outside of your refusal to concede anything and/or are a lying troll?
Hope you didn't miss the George Lynch story about MJ also being a liar and petty.
I'm coming around on ol' George.
From a scoring standpoint... It's common knowledge that Pippen was a system player with average scoring ability and worst-ever efficiency/lane-clogging
And Capela was a rich man's Horace, while CP3 was a goat-level point guard.. That's more help than MJ ever had, yet Harden did nothing.
It’s true.
At it peak he finish 8th in scoring in the league , just show how weak the league was .
Probably why mj won so many scoring championships, even with a messily 28 and 29 ppg .
I mean for harden to win 65 win with no all star and a washed out Chris Paul
(Using the same argument FG used for bird first ring with washed out teammates and couldn’t win the final mvp lol ) , leading 3-2 vs a goat team curry and durant until Chris Paul got hurt ….
Yes harden suck lol .
Harden would have destroy mj in scoring in the 90s.
If pippen can finish 8th scoring and he suck , imagine harden what he could of do lol
You: He only won 45-50 games with CP3
Me: He won 65 and 52
You: Not the years we're talking about
Me: The only years CP3 was there they won 65 and 52
You: We're talking about different years
Me: Then don't mention CP3 bc he wasn't on the team
You: I was right, you brought up CP3
Why is this hard to follow outside of your refusal to concede anything and/or are a lying troll?
Because he doesn’t understand what contradiction means .
Just by using his own arguments he gets contradicted lol.
He believes stats changes depending on which players we talking about .
We can’t have a discussion with a person like that .
He can’t even distinguishing when he lies or not , his probably a conspiracy theorist outside basketball .
I shorted them a win. It was 53, not 52.
My bad. See? That's not hard to say. It doesn't mean I'm indebted for life, it was just a small mistake. No biggie.
I like how he's constantly citing what "everyone knows." But when everyone knows Pippen was a great defender it's obviously lolwrong and think for yourself.
You wanna compare "common knowledge" about Pippen to your opinion of him? Well no, that's only when it suits you.
Joking aside, the bottom line is I just need to know what George Lynch thinks of him.
Everyone knows that LeBron can't play off the ball. Even if no one has ever been quoted saying it.
I wasn't wrong... Fidstar introduced the topic about Harden's peak scoring ability, which was 2019 and 2020 - that's where the 53 and 46 games came from.Otoh, you cited his years with CP3, which were a black mark due to zero titles.. Harden had more help than Jordan ever had but did nothing.. And of course, he couldn't win with KD.. Ultimately, I've destroyed Lebron so severel
I bought up a 3 year peak. Because there's really nothing between his 2nd and 3rd best season in that run.
You've chopped it out because, you know, 65 wins.
.
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3-POINT EFFICIENCY FOR REGULAR SEASON GAMES WHERE MJ HAD 3+ ATTEMPTS:
1985...... 4-18
1986...... 3-6
1987...... 5-22
1988...... 1-3
1989...... 16-49
1990...... 75-187
1991...... 11-30
1992...... 13-39
1993...... 68-185
__________________________
total....... 196-539 (36.4%)
3-POINT EFFICIENCY FOR PLAYOFF SERIES WITH 3+ ATTEMPTS - regular line only (HIGHLIGHTED BELOW):
53-135 (39.2%)
TLDR: From 85-93', Jordan shot 36.4% on threes in games that he had 3+ attempts (539 attempts), and 39% in series with 3+ attempts (regular line only) - aka there's no record of MJ shooting poorly at today's volumes, or whenever he had above "bailout" volume (extremely low volume - only bailouts taken)... Since MJ always shot well at today's volumes despite no practice (36-39%), he would be elite in today's game WITH practice (40% or more).
In the 2018 Western Conference Finals, Harden attempted 11 threes per game at 24%, so the Rockets had an easy victory if not for Harden's choking... Jordan could've shot 36% on two's and matched Harden on those possessions, while the numbers above show that Jordan averaged 39% on threes in series from the regular line with 3+ attempts, so he would've likely taken 4-6 attempts at around 39% and easily won the series.
The fact that Harden was spotted a 3-2 lead despite this ineptness and also going 0 for 11 on threes in Game 5 to get the 3-2 lead (5-21 and 19 pts) further demonstrates how bad Harden is, and how easily-beatable the 18' Warriors actually were... Jordan would've annihilated them with that Rockets' roster, let alone his 90's Bulls.
