Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack wher
It's a shame that on such a popular poker forum, two users are spreading russian narratives, no worse than kremlin putin propagandists like solovyov, skabeeva, etc. about neo-Nazis in Ukraine, elections during martial law, and the fact that the Revolution of Dignity of 2013-2014 was inspired by the USA. It seems that the kremlin has reached 2+2.
the funny part is the idea that this is all about nato and western imperialism is not what russia is saying. it’s an argument the western apologists make up
but every time you hear putin his argument is that ukraine is not a real country and basically shouldn’t exist as an independent state
I
Furthermore, if all Ukrainians were free to vote in elections (if they were to even happen I mean Zelensky is in violation of the constitution currently and the thugs who orchestrated the 2014 coup are not ever going to support democracy),
Zelensky isn't in violation of the constitution. As was said, you're talking bollocks.
So you're a separate Putin Lickspittle huh? My apologies to victor so.
Russia had neo Nazi battalions in Ukraine in 2014. Don't hear you whinging about that.
Have you considered that he might be a fan?
It's a shame that on such a popular poker forum, two users are spreading russian narratives, no worse than kremlin putin propagandists like solovyov, skabeeva, etc. about neo-Nazis in Ukraine, elections during martial law, and the fact that the Revolution of Dignity of 2013-2014 was inspired by the USA. It seems that the kremlin has reached 2+2.
These also happen to be the opinions of American scholars of Russia, the ones who cut their teeth in the cold war as adversaries of Russia, not the staffers who didn't know anything about Ukraine other than some vague association with bread prior to 2022. My sources know Russia. They know the history of relations between Russia and the U.S. and Russia and Ukraine. They understand the contours of all the stresses and strain as well as the motives of U.S. planners. They are well credentialed people who teach Russian history and current events.
Again, my opinions are those of the people who have credentials, have a record of being consulted about Russia during the cold war by the State department, have published books on it long before 2022, and, before the truth of things was being actively obscured, were the public intellectuals looked to for education and advice on Russia.
Your people, the people supporting the anti-Russia conspiracy drivel, who you can't even identify as the source of your errant beliefs, have no record of contributions of anything related to Russia or Ukraine. And don't feed me that wind up toy Snyder (not that you even know who he is).
I'm the one person in this forum (I'm pretty sure) who predicted the Mueller report was to be a nothing burger. That makes more informed on this topic than anyone you are likely to see on TV talking about it. Why? Because I read people who actually know about this. You're not checking credentials. You are just taking in disinformation from your television and trying to spread it like a virus. If I am wrong then you tell me who are your sources and let's review their records.
Zelensky isn't in violation of the constitution. As was said, you're talking bollocks.
I'm not an expert on the constitution of Ukraine. Does it allow for coups? because one happened in 2014.
What I have heard said from reliable sources is that there are term limits on the presidency. Zelensky's term is expired. Yet, there he is, wearing his fake military fatigues that he seems to be trapped inside, going around huffing and puffing and begging for a prolonging of the suffering of the Ukrainian people so that HE doesn't have to face what is next for him.
Evidently not, because you missed this bit under Art.83.
In the event that the term of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine expires while a state of martial law or of emergency is in effect, its powers are extended until the day when the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine elected after the cancellation of the state of martial law or of emergency convenes its first meeting of the first session.
And the same applies to the presidency, because, by parliamentary vote, elections can't be held under martial law.
https://constitutionnet.org/news/ukraine...
https://rm.coe.int/en-organisation-and-h...
Does it allow for coups? because one happened in 2014.
At most a parliamentary coup, with 328 out of 480 lawmakers voting to get rid of the Kremlin stooge Yanukovych (who now lives in Russia) in the course of a popular uprising against said stooge. There were arguments about whether it should have gone to the Constitutional Court, but reality on the ground supervened, as it did rather more fatally in the case of Ceaucescu in Romania. (You may or may not recall that the video of Ceaucescu's execution by firing squad was shown on Romanian TV, by popular request, every Christmas for a number of years afterwards, so Yanukovych got off lightly.)
https://www.rferl.org/a/was-yanukovychs-...
What I have heard said from reliable sources...
insert guffaw here
...is that there are term limits on the presidency. Zelensky's term is expired. Yet, there he is...
He's been voted an extension. See above.
I'm not an expert on the constitution of Ukraine. Does it allow for coups? because one happened in 2014.
Zelensky was democratically elected.
What I have heard said from reliable sources
What reliable sources? Tucker Carlson? Steven Seagal? Or flat out Kremlin bots on X?
is that there are term limits on the presidency. Zelensky's term is expired. Yet, there he is, wearing his fake military fatigues that he seems to be trapped inside, going around huffing and puffing and begging for a prolonging of the suffering of the Ukrainian people so that HE doesn't have to face what is next for him.
So much wrong here. It was already explained to you how elections aren't permitted under the Ukrainian constitution, when Ukraine is under Martial Law. It's under that due to a certain Russian dictator aggressively invading them. If Ukraine falls, Zelensky faces a very real threat of being murdered. He could have scarpered and didn't. He's a true leader. And what do you mean fake? Hos fatigues are made of paper or something?
And by coup, I take it you mean this?
To oust this Putin-bitch?
In November 2013, Yanukovych suddenly withdrew from signing an association agreement with the EU, amidst economic pressure from Russia.[11] Ukraine's parliament had overwhelmingly approved finalizing the agreement.[12] This sparked massive protests against him, known as the Euromaidan.[13][14][15] T[he unrest peaked in February 2014, when almost 100 protesters were killed by government forces.[16]
An agreement was then signed by Yanukovych and the opposition, but he secretly fled the capital that evening. The next day, 22 February 2014, Ukraine's parliament voted to remove him and schedule early elections on the grounds that he had withdrawn from his constitutional duties.[17][18] Some of his own party voted for his removal.[19][20][21][22]
Ukraine's new government issued an arrest warrant for Yanukovych, accusing him of responsibility for the killing of protesters. He fled to Russia, claiming to still be the head of state.[23] In 2019, he was sentenced in absentia to a thirteen-year prison term for high treason by a Ukrainian court.[24] In polling conducted since he left office, Yanukovych has ranked as one of the worst presidents in Ukrainian history
Who's now living in exile in Russia and is probably neighbours with Assad?
Truth's easy to defend. Speaks volumes you need to be disingenuous to defend your argument.
Evidently not, because you missed this bit under Art.83.
And the same applies to the presidency, because, by parliamentary vote, elections can't be held under martial law.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man.
It's funny you quote something then you use your own words to just handwave over the critical part. I'm not inclined to argue on something I'm just finding out about today. But I will say what you cited, according to the verbiage you quoted, applies to the parliament. There is a legal opinion argued that the speaker should serve a interim president until elections can be held. There is no provision in the constitution itself that Zelensky can stay in.
But I'm not saying in a vacuum that him overstaying his term established Ukraine as an authoritarian state. If I had to guess the most popular Google search in Ukraine I would go with "how to survive in the Carpathian mountains" because anyone with half a brain there is trying to GTFO. I heard that some guy killed himself with scissors waiting in an army intake office after being kidnapped off the street for forced military service. They are kidnapping people in vans and shuttling them to the front lines. The ones in the field who have survived know where to hide and put the new people directly in harms way. Rich people or Ukrainians who work for certain Western companies get exemptions. None of the people lobbying for and benefitting from this war have to risk anything and so of course they want it to drag on and on. I assume you are one of them. If you try to leave the country they will just shoot you using drone or thug. Zelensky's political opponents have been threatened, jailed and killed. TV stations critical of Zelensky have been shut down. He ran on a peace platform and reneged on that immediately. And oh yeah this is all on the heels of a violent coup instigated by a foreign government. So there are many reasons why Ukraine is not a democracy.
It isn't his opinion. He just linked the relevant legislation. Putin's opponents have been poisoned, defenestrated, died in bizarre apparent murder-suicides along with their families, died in plane crashes and he's also had potential opponents jailed.
I don't see you condemning that.
No, parliament voted to extend the president's term while the state of emergency lasts, because it's already in the constitution that elections can't be held under martial law. Now wait till you hear about the Russian parliament voting to let Putin violate the constitution by serving as many terms as he likes and remaining president for life.
It isn't his opinion. He just linked the relevant legislation. Putin's opponents have been poisoned, defenestrated, died in bizarre apparent murder-suicides along with their families, died in plane crashes and he's also had potential opponents jailed.
I don't see you condemning that.
Chuckling at the idea that Zelensky hasn't jailed tortured and killed his opponents.
It isn't his opinion. He just linked the relevant legislation. Putin's opponents have been poisoned, defenestrated, died in bizarre apparent murder-suicides along with their families, died in plane crashes and he's also had potential opponents jailed.
I don't see you condemning that.
Legislation being the key word there. The constitution doesn't say the president can remain past his term and there seems to be something of a debate going on the question. So what I said, without exactly knowing what I was talking about, that Zelensky was in violation of the constitution, is the opinion of some experts (and not pro Russian ones either). Just because elections are off doesn't automatically mean the president remains. Some say the speaker should function as an interim president. The constitutionality of the legislation holding the continuity of the government past term limits is debatable. I don't have a legal opinion on it but we are definitely in the realm of opinion on the Zelensky overstay question.
Personally I think it's enough already with this guy. He did a 180 on his campaign pledges for detente with Russia and implementation of the Minsk accords. His leadership has resulted in military defeat. He has entrapped himself in off putting military casual wear which, by now, if he ever changes would be like admitting defeat. With Trump in office for the next 4 years, representing a super hard change of Ukraine policy, it would be democratic and practical for him to hold elections. But Ukraine is pretty fing far from a democracy.
Legislation being the key word there. The constitution doesn't say the president can remain past his term and there seems to be something of a debate going on the question. So what I said, without exactly knowing what I was talking about, that Zelensky was in violation of the constitution, is the opinion of some experts (and not pro Russian ones either). Just because elections
Sorry but what part of it being legal to suspend elections when under martial law...just isn't registering with you? It's been explained more than once, in fairness. UK did the same for 10 years, up to and during WW II as there were extraordinary circumstances. What would be the point of Zelensky stepping down during a full on invasion? It's very telling you grasp at these straws when it comes to Zelensky and Ukraine, but haven't anything to say about Putin's murder campaign and indeed seem to find any critique of him as western/MSM propaganda.
Ukraine is a democracy. I'm sure it has its flaws like any other country but it's certainly a democracy.
Sorry but what part of it being legal to suspend elections when under martial law...just isn't registering with you? It's been explained more than once, in fairness. UK did the same for 10 years, up to and during WW II as there were extraordinary circumstances. What would be the point of Zelensky stepping down during a full on invasion? It's very telling you grasp at these stra
Things not registering is your error, not mine. What specifically is not registering with you is that suspending elections doesn't mean Zelensky stays. The constitutionality of him staying is debatable. It is possible for both having no elections and Zelensky stepping down. It would be a situation similar to if Zelensky died in office, if you can use an analogy to help you grasp this. What would happen if elections were suspended and Zelensky died? Well, that is what some experts the Ukrainian constitution think should be happening right now.
You can see that there are positives and negatives either way, right? Like there is a bit of a conflict in being able to both maintain power as long as a war is happening and simultaneously having the power to extend that war indefinitely.
Things not registering is your error, not mine. What specifically is not registering with you is that suspending elections doesn't mean Zelensky stays. The constitutionality of him staying is debatable. It is possible for both having no elections and Zelensky stepping down. It would be a situation similar to if Zelensky died in office, if you can use an analogy to help you gras
The parliament has chosen to extend the president's term.
Things not registering is your error, not mine. What specifically is not registering with you is that suspending elections doesn't mean Zelensky stays. The constitutionality of him staying is debatable. It is possible for both having no elections and Zelensky stepping down. It would be a situation similar to if Zelensky died in office, if you can use an analogy to help you gras
Zenlensky would immediately resign if this was the price of winning ,
by Putin leaving Ukraine and has reassurance that if Putin invades again , nato could intervene .
Putin winning Ukraine or not , he would never step down if this was the price of winning .
Comparing the 2 in a democratic sense is hilarious …
i mean, he's even jailed his backers; e.g. that oligarch who made him in the first place
all you gotta do is tell these people that they are Russian agents or its Russian propaganda and they are like yep, gotta jail and assassinate these guys. or just say they are Hamas. heres hoping Miss Rachel doesnt get drone striked.
Yesterday called. It wants its potential back. This is war has been decided. Ukraine lost. It's time for Ukraine to start negotiating what it will be giving up. There is no winning now. There are only degrees of losing.
by Putin leaving Ukraine and has reassurance that if Putin invades again , nato could intervene .
So Zelensky is supposed to settle by getting the very thing Russia went to war to prevent? NATO membership? That's brilliant. Are you like a guy who asks a woman out, she rejects you, and then you're like ok can we just have sex then?
Yeah that guy thinks he might be getting out of jail via Trump somehow because he was cast as anti-Biden or something. He has supposedly killed a lot of people (or had them killed) so I'm sure Zelensky is rightfully paranoid about him. If I was Zelensky I'd scrounge up some more serious charges and have the state execute him if possible. It's hard to kill a billionaire though. You either need China or an hobbyist submarine those are the only ways they can be killed.
Things not registering is your error, not mine. What specifically is not registering with you is that suspending elections doesn't mean Zelensky stays. The constitutionality of him staying is debatable. It is possible for both having no elections and Zelensky stepping down. It would be a situation similar to if Zelensky died in office, if you can use an analogy to help you gras
It did register. It's why I asked what was the point of him stepping down in the middle of a war. And as has been said by 57, parliament voted to extend his term.
And again why are you attaching more significance to this, while disregarding the context, than to Putin's actions, such as aggressively invading his neighbours and his campaign of murder?
You're an apologist for a murderous thug.
