Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
I do think we should compare the murder done by the USSR vs that of the USA. you might not like the results. that is, unless you get upset about dead fascists circa 1945.
I do think we should compare the murder done by the USSR vs that of the USA. you might not like the results. that is, unless you get upset about dead fascists circa 1945.
What the USSR did in Poland and the Baltics after the war alone is more evil than what the west did 1946-2025 worldwide by a significant margin
'Pogroms' (attacks on Jews) have occasionally happened in post-war Europe, as a result of Zionism, but they're more prevalent in Israel, Oct 7 being the most notorious recent example (but pretty certainly not the last). Zionism always was a fundamentally flawed idea.
I feel you can say most “Arab” nations created in the fall of the Ottoman Empire have been fundamentally flawed ideas.
I feel you can say most “Arab” nations created in the fall of the Ottoman Empire have been fundamentally flawed ideas.
Not clear to me if a better alternative could have existed to be honest.
Failed people make for failed polities led by failing leaders necessarily. They have to go through the centuries we needed as well to try to become enlightened and it's not a given they would ever success.
What do you propose other than self-rule and hoping for the best?
I feel you can say most “Arab” nations created in the fall of the Ottoman Empire have been fundamentally flawed ideas.
most have been puppets of the West and supporters of the Israeli apartheid genocide state. so ya, I agree!
Not clear to me if a better alternative could have existed to be honest.
Failed people make for failed polities led by failing leaders necessarily. They have to go through the centuries we needed as well to try to become enlightened and it's not a given they would ever success.
What do you propose other than self-rule and hoping for the best?
It seems anytime you attempt to transition from a corrupt, tribal culture to a nation state based on first principles the transition is going to be difficult.
We actually just finished watching The Leopard miniseries on Netflix which dealt with Sicily going through this process on the 1860s and having some of the same difficulties we have seen throughout the Arab world the last 70 years.
In the Arab case having an extremely dogmatic religion that roughly translates to “submission” that is the antithesis of enlightenment principles seems to have been a particular difficult obstacle to circumnavigate.
It seems anytime you attempt to transition from a corrupt, tribal culture to a nation state based on first principles the transition is going to be difficult. We actually just finished watching The Leopard miniseries on Netflix which dealt with Sicily going through this process on the 1860s and having some of the same difficulties we have seen throughout the Arab world the l
Sicily never had self-rule so i am not sure the example applies. It went from a previously glorious ("top of the world" in outcomes) kingdom in the 13th century to a very slow slide toward irrelevancy (always as a subsidiary of the kingdom of naples basically, for many centuries) up until it got gobbled up by the nascent "Italy" at the time you discuss.
I mean i can't claim Sicily would have achieved a fruitful independence if it had a chance but, it never had a chance.
Arab nation-states had a chance and failed miserably, all of them. Not even clear to me the dogmatic religion was the main issue at all, as christianism was very dogmatic and oppressive and atrocious in it's specifications in the victorian era in the UK yet the UK was the dominant country in the world basically.
I do think we should compare the murder done by the USSR vs that of the USA. you might not like the results. that is, unless you get upset about dead fascists circa 1945.
I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say here, it’s not even controversial that’s why the UN was started and both sides of the cold war agreed with that.
source? the Black Book of Communism and PragerU.
whats it called when genocidal monsters force some people to make a choice on who gets to live or die? its an idiom of some sort. maybe corpus can help me out. I just cant quite remember...
You'll see hardcore tankies on the internet deny the Great Terror....though obviously not any reputable historians or scholars.
And in the bootlicking fascist West, you find that people support mass murder of millions of children for fun and profit.
Lmao. You just did deny it by demanding a source in a sceptical tone. 😆
And in the bootlicking fascist West, you find that people support mass murder of millions of children for fun and profit.
Highlight these people who readily proclaim that they "support mass murder of millions of children for fun and profit".
Or else again, for the nth time, tone down the hyperbole a few million notches.
looks like the OG Middle East terrorists got up to some more terrorism today. Zionists aka Israeli Supremacist Extremists cant stop wont stop.
Israel is going to bomb Beirut again. its one thing to murder civilians all over the south of Lebanon but Beirut is a definite escalation. good thing Hezbollah said you can stick your decommission up your arse.
So Hezbollah refuses to disarm, and Israel bombs their weapons depots.
Victor, I understand you want Israel to just let Hezbollah rebuild its strength to go back to the 10/7 status quo, where they can threaten and attack Israel at will. But I hope you can appreciate why Israel doesn't seem inclined to let this happen.
