Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Why did your mother decide to marry her brother?
You're saying it's based on personal views on the combatants, in particular their cultures. I never bought this explanation. Most of those who support Israel for other than religious reasons are still conservatives. These are people who want guards posted at bathrooms inspecting people's genitals before they go in. Islam is a conservative religion. The segment of support for Is
Blue is much more knowledgeable about this than any of us, so he can correct me if this is wrong; but conservative Jewish sects probably have many of the same attitudes and problems as Islamic ones, with the difference being they are less focused on conquering and spreading religion through the sword (or AK-47 in current times).
The main issue is the Ummah today on top of being several magnitudes larger than the Jewish diaspora generallyis more conservative and radical than the majority of Jews are. If the behavior of the West Bank religious fanatics was the norm for the entire Jewish diaspora, than Jews would have similar problems integrating with the civilized world.
Because the only other option was you?
Keep in mind the crucial element that if they were to move on, we would move on with them. We already abandoned the religious ideas that put us into conflict mostly. Whatever religion is left in europe is irrecognizable to a 14th century believer. Problem is islam didn't move on the same, in particular in arab countries.
It is hard for a religion to move on when the central tenant of said religion is that a (mostly fictitious) warlord who was a monster by modern standard of moral behavior is the most perfect, righteous man and this truth is timeless.
Now the vast majority of people can (and often do) still find a way to live their lives in a manner compatible with 21st century moral norms. But the ones that adhere to theologically reasonable interpretations of how one should behave, that are not compatible with modern moral norms, will always be able to reasonable claim the moral high ground.
In other news, Qatar is gifting Trump a plane dubbed the “place in the sky”. Don’t expect any of the typical critics to mention this or find anything strange or alarming. But it’s the dirty Jews who have their hands and money in everything.
In other news, Qatar is gifting Trump a plane dubbed the “place in the sky”. Don’t expect any of the typical critics to mention this or find anything strange or alarming. But it’s the dirty Jews who have their hands and money in everything.
The amount of grift being given directly to Trump's circle by Saudi, UAE and Qatar is staggering. And if you look at diplomatic actions Trump has already made for these nations on behalf of the US, and is planning on moving forward (including an impending promise to build nuclear power plants without having to normalize with Israel first), they are definitely getting very good return on their money.
It is a sad state of affairs that nations whose laws and culture prohibit this kind of blatant corruption (including most of Europe) are at a huge geopolitical disadvantage wrt navigating Trump, as this is how he does business.
In other news, Qatar is gifting Trump a plane dubbed the “place in the sky”. Don’t expect any of the typical critics to mention this or find anything strange or alarming. But it’s the dirty Jews who have their hands and money in everything.
Kinda funny they spent so much time pretending like Hunter Biden getting money was a huge deal. Foreign governments just straight giving things to potus is fine apparently.
In Italy and elsewhere there are center-left parties where the same person asking for homosexual marriage (which isn't legal yet here) is 100% pro Israel so no, i don't buy the "they are conservatives".
Maybe I didn't make it clear but my question was about support for Israel inside the U.S. In the U.S. the support for Israel is dramatically different between Republicans and Democrats, an ok proxy for conservative and progressive, with Republicans being far more supportive of Israel. While many conservatives are religious, not all of them subscribe to the particular sects of Christianity that prophesize Jews going to Jerusalem as necessary for the return of the savior or whatever. Those people, who are conservative and support Israel without religious justification, have way more in common with Islam than Judaism. They actually have way more in common with Islam than Christianity, culturally. Granted, there are secular "progressives" who for whatever reasons support Israel, but this is a much smaller segment. I don't know what's up with those people but for the larger group, the conservatives, it's got to be a lot about racism. Yes there are white Muslims but in America like nobody knows that.
Judaism is majoritarian in one country, so we have to check what they prohibit legally to others right there. Afaik non kosher-food isn't prohibited in Israel. Alcohol is prohibited in what, 20+ muslim majority countries?
There are a lot of different rules about alcohol in different Muslim countries, lots of loopholes and exceptions based on your religion etc. You think alcohol isn't being consumed in Dubai? Or that even the Saudis are really going to prohibit alcohol in the giant tourism play, NEOM? No way. Besides, Palestinians aren't trying to impose their religion on you. You are focusing on things which are totally orthogonal to the dynamics on the ground in Israel.
It's about history and identity, islam has been the mortal enemy of my culture and my people for 1k + years. They took our women to rape them and our children as slaves. We fought and spilled blood for the reconquista and in Lepanto and in the Wien siege.
That's a completely false narrative that has been fed to you as an outgrowth of political necessity. You're a "Western civ" bro? Well let me tell you something about your culture - it hated Jews for a super long time. It's only been very recently, with the usefulness of Israel in the Western quest for resource dominance, that Jews have become accepted and even liked. Most Western leaders, including as recent as Churchill, have been openly antisemitic. Despite attempts to displace it onto Islam, antisemitism is a largely Western phenomenon of your culture. Germany, the leading example of "your" culture in the early 20th century, had so much hate for Jews bubbling up that it killed some 6 million of them and would have killed every last one they could find had they not been stopped by Russians. That's your culture, running continuous pogroms against the Jews until Israel helped you get oil. Even in America, where Jews have lived for a long time, they were detested by polite society for a long time. Polls show this. They now show Jews being the most favored minority in the U.S., but you only have to go back a few decades for those polls to show they were ranked just above black people for the longest.
The Roman, and by extension the West's, hatred of Jews goes back earlier in time than even Christianity. So you're going to wake up from millenniums of Jew hating and pretend it's been the Muslims the whole time who were your despised rivals because oil. That is very Western of you, very much a greed inspired delusion emblematic of your culture.
Kinda funny they spent so much time pretending like Hunter Biden getting money was a huge deal. Foreign governments just straight giving things to potus is fine apparently.
Right. Apparently the Democrats are deeply corrupt, meanwhile Trump openly takes bribes from anyone willing to do business.
Kinda funny they spent so much time pretending like Hunter Biden getting money was a huge deal. Foreign governments just straight giving things to potus is fine apparently.
That plane is small potatoes
Right. Apparently the Democrats are deeply corrupt, meanwhile Trump openly takes bribes from anyone willing to do business.
Here’s a thought maybe there both corrupt
Pity to see you, I was hoping you were dead by now.
You MF baby killers can never say you didn't know.
Spare us the sanctimonious outrage and e-crocodile tears. "Brown" babies are being killed/starved all around the world. And you couldn't give two shits unless it is a foil to be outraged by Israel. You are completely ideologically motivated by I hate for Israel/the US, and are otherwise indifferent to the vast majority of human suffering.
If you care about starving brown children so much, there are 10 different famines going on much worse than what is going on in Gaza. With no end in sight. Go be outraged and volunteer/donate to one of these.
The wild thing is that pretty much the only people in Gaza that actually look like they are/were being intentionally starved are the hostages, including the ones that were executed because they had been starved to the point they could no longer walk. So the choice was to leave them where Israel would most likely rescue them or execute them, and Hamas chose execution.
Spare us the sanctimonious outrage and e-crocodile tears. "Brown" babies are being killed/starved all around the world. And you couldn't give two shits unless it is a foil to be outraged by Israel. You are completely ideologically motivated by I hate for Israel/the US, and are otherwise indifferent to the vast majority of human suffering.If you care about starving brown chil
The idea that those who take an interest in human rights and human welfare are secret anti-semites is such a transparently false that literally nobody believes. You just say it as a place holder for what you can't say or think you can't say which is that you want all those people to suffer and die because someone has told you they are different and therefore don't deserve to live.
Great argument though. If I'm ever on trial for a crime I'll just say what about all the other crimes and why don't you care about them it's only when I do something that anyone cares. Great defense that will be. Not at all moronic beyond belief.
Wait I'm getting it wrong. If steal a bike, for example. I shouldn't just say what about the other bikes being stolen. I can include all categories of lost bikes just like you are including all famines. In my whattaboutery I can site all categories of missing bikes like leaving them somewhere or when you go off to college and your mom gives it away to the neighbors kid to save space. Yeah I'll be facing a judge in court and say your honor I don't want to hear your fake outrage about my stealing a bike when bikes are missing left and right in this land and I don't hear anything about them from you. It's a perfect defense. It's about the dumbest thing that anyone could think of but which could actually be believed by someone just smart enough to know how to tie their own shoes. I'll get put in a special facility for people who can't think and released into a group home in no time.
The idea that those who take an interest in human rights and human welfare are secret anti-semites is such a transparently false that literally nobody believes. You just say it as a place holder for what you can't say or think you can't say which is that you want all those people to suffer and die because someone has told you they are different and therefore don't deserve to li
You cheerlead Big Daddy Putin shooting ballistic missiles at children's hospitals. So in your case we don't even have to pretend you have any interest in human rights.
