Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
I love his ultra conservative regressionism and targeted assassinations but do not support the invasion of nazi ukraine
or something
If Israel were serious about disarmament, they'd have come up with proposals for staggered disarmament already. A complete disarmament overnight is tantamount to surrender and, worse, politial (and potentially actual) suicide as they'd not be able to fend themselves against other Palestinian rivals. Besides, what people (myself included) have been calling "Hamas" is really a co
I don’t think Israel has any interest or intention in working with Hamas towards a serous disarmament. Not do I think Hamas has any interest in this.
People like to compare Hamas to the Zionist militias in the 1930s-1940s. But I think it is a bad comparison for a lot of reasons.
First off, Israel got to dictate terms in 1948 from A position of strength because they won the war. Hamas wants to dictate terms from a Position of weakness. And their “leverage” is their complete indifference toward the suffering of the people and taking advantage of the pathological empathy of westerners.
Second, the Zionists of 1948 had the collective will and foresight to put aside their organizational interests for a larger common good. There is no such will or foresight in Palestinian society.
“Palestine” as a singular nation really only exists in the western imagination. In truth the people themselves are still very tribal, zero sum, and have no collective vision.
The truth is the Islamist groups, most of their followers, and the foreign governments which sponsor and support them have no interest in any 2 state solution, under any terms. They are playing for a long game where the Jews are run out (as they have been run out of the rest of MENA).
And the Israeli right cynically understands and accepts this and are working towards their own one state solution— Israel.
Now I don't actually think Vic cares about Palestine. He cares about calling people genociders and baby murders and talking bad about jews
Every atrocity is met with glib borderline glee
He's American, so he has no interest beyond US internal politics and the faction-squabbling and name-calling that goes with that.
This is the head of the WFP. She is clearly a liar as both pro-Hamas and pro-Israeli people would say. Pro-Hamas people claim that the looters are organized crime, pro-Israel will say the looters are Hamas. She denies both and says it’s just hungry people, providing absolutely zero evidence. I don’t trust the declarations of dishonest people like her.
Cindy McCain, the head of the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP), refuted on Sunday allegations that Hamas is stealing food aid going into Gaza, and took issue with the use of the term "looting" to describe civilians who effectively steal what they can.
"Listen, people are desperate, and they see a World Food Programme truck coming in, and they run for it. This doesn't have anything to do with Hamas or any kind of organised crime or anything," McCain told the US network CBS.
"[It's] simply to do with the fact these people are starving to death."
So when she says that Hamas was not at the WFP warehouse I give her statements absolutely zero credence. Of course she would be motivated to say that, and she has proven to be a complete liar.
This is the head of the WFP. She is clearly a liar as both pro-Hamas and pro-Israeli people would say. Pro-Hamas people claim that the looters are organized crime, pro-Israel will say the looters are Hamas. She denies both and says it’s just hungry people, providing absolutely zero evidence. I don’t trust the declarations of dishonest people like her.
The amusing thing is that in Arab social media Hamas actually makes statements about controlling aid and killing “looters” to project their own strength. And by all accounts those statements are truthful.
But western elites, NGOs, and media completely ignore this, as they understand that such Hamas claims that play good to the Arab audience would play bad to a western one.
I love his ultra conservative regressionism and targeted assassinations but do not support the invasion of nazi ukraine
or something
Or something.
This is the head of the WFP. She is clearly a liar as both pro-Hamas and pro-Israeli people would say. Pro-Hamas people claim that the looters are organized crime, pro-Israel will say the looters are Hamas. She denies both and says it’s just hungry people, providing absolutely zero evidence. I don’t trust the declarations of dishonest people like her.
ahh yes, the noted friend and propagandist of Hamas, Cindy (wife of John) Mccain.
Israeli ministers say 22 new Jewish settlements have been approved in the occupied West Bank - the biggest expansion in decades.
Several already exist as outposts, built without government authorisation, but will now be made legal under Israeli law. Others are completely new, according to Defence Minister Israel Katz and Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich.
Settlements - which are widely seen as illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this - are one of the most contentious issues between Israel and the Palestinians.
Katz said the move "prevents the establishment of a Palestinian state that would endanger Israel", while the Palestinian presidency called it a "dangerous escalation".
Yes she is doing propaganda for Hamas by stating that Hamas is not looting. Hope that helps Victor.
And you know she is a liar as well because you have talked about how the problem is looters in these threads.
So anything she says should be given zero credence whatsoever. There is zero reason to trust her statements w/r/t aid, and that includes the murders of hungry civilians that Hamas has taken credit for.
Hamas is not looting. Hamas is the government and the civil authority. its well documented in Israeli and even Western media and from people in Gaza that criminal gangs, often armed by Israel, are looting the aid. Yes, Hamas executes these scumbags when they get a chance.
Yes she is doing propaganda for Hamas by stating that Hamas is not looting. Hope that helps Victor.
Cindy McCain is a Hamas propagandist now? Have you people completely lost your minds?
The Trump administration doesn’t actually care about antisemitism or Islamic terrorism. It is just a cynical framing to go after political enemies at home.
That being said, the Trump administration is interested in developing and rebuilding Gaza. And it needs Hamas out do the way to do this.
Hamas really is just a ruthless gang, and gangs are bad for business.
They care about antisemitism because some of the most crucial and influential billionaire donors of the republican party do care about that A LOT. Like single issue a lot.
Miriam Adelson cares A LOT. Like really a lot. That's 150M last cycle (that we know of, + the indirect pushing).
Ackman cares *a great deal*. He donates less but is very influential among other donors. And has Musk hear.
Griffin paused donations to Harvard because of antisemitism (another top5 republican donor).
The rank and file Trump base guys could care less about antisemitism. Trump cares because his blood is mixed with jewish blood and he cares about his blood.
A lot of other republicans don't care.
But when some of the most important donors care, the administration does care.
Where have I shilled for ****ing Putin, you liar?
I'm quite on the fence about him. I think even once you see through the incessant anti-Russia propaganda there are more bad than good things about him.
How can you be on the fence about someone who outlaws public displays of homosexuality because of "**** propaganda"? isn't that enough for you to hate that person and consider him an enemy of humanity?
If a few hundred Nazis in Missouri marched into Kansas to murder some Jews, it would still matter if Kansas retaliated by blowing up hospitals and schools, killing tens of thousands of Missourians to rid the gang.
I'll concede that the #s and the situation isn't the same in this analogy, but a tremendous amount of innocent people, just as innocent as those who died on oct 7th are being killed as well. This matters.
If a few hundred Nazis in Missouri marched into Kansas to murder some Jews, it would still matter if Kansas retaliated by blowing up hospitals and schools, killing tens of thousands of Missourians to rid the gang.I'll concede that the #s and the situation isn't the same in this analogy, but a tremendous amount of innocent people, just as innocent as those who died on oct 7th ar
These hypotheticals are always totally useless and this one isn’t even remotely accurate. The Nazis would have to do a lot more than just march into Kansas and murder some people to be comparable to Hamas.
How can you be on the fence about someone who outlaws public displays of homosexuality because of "**** propaganda"? isn't that enough for you to hate that person and consider him an enemy of humanity?
I hadn’t heard that and given that the only source I have is you and that you’re full of the largest amount of shite of anyone in this forum including BJ and DBF I’d need some citations.
So to summarize, Kelhus tells a complete fairy tale about an alleged Hamas food warehouse, Victor (of all people!) finds the source of this rumor profusely apologizing and announcing it was bullshit. Then our boy checkrais comes over the top with a link confirming that the story was bullshit, but he then goes on to babble something about the wife of John McCain somehow being pro-Hamas therefore this proves the story was real.
This is the level of idiocy and dishonesty you have to sink to if you want to keep apologizing for the ongoing mass slaughter now. Raffi and Mets were the smarter ones, they checked out of the thread weeks ago. Now it's just the hard-core neo-Nazis peddling objectively stupid lies and somehow getting clowned on by Victor.
So to summarize, Kelhus tells a complete fairy tale about an alleged Hamas food warehouse, Victor (of all people!) finds the source of this rumor profusely apologizing and announcing it was bullshit. Then our boy checkrais comes over the top with a link confirming that the story was bullshit, but he then goes on to babble something about the wife of John McCain somehow being pr
I’m not sure what thread you’re reading, but I doubt there are any neo-Nazis in here defending Israel. And Victor isn’t clowning on anyone but himself.
I mean, they may have been smarter I dunno. but they all just posted easily disputable lies over and over. every single thing they pushed back on has now been proven true. I mean, anyone else remember when they said that quadcopters didnt shoot people and that Israel didnt use human shields? this stuff was well known by anyone with the slightest critical thinking ability and a twitter feed back in Nov 23.
Maybe they weren't smarter per se but they just have a sense of shame that eventually kicks in. It's gotta be embarrassing going to bat for such obvious lies.
So to summarize, Kelhus tells a complete fairy tale about an alleged Hamas food warehouse, Victor (of all people!) finds the source of this rumor profusely apologizing and announcing it was bullshit. Then our boy checkrais comes over the top with a link confirming that the story was bullshit, but he then goes on to babble something about the wife of John McCain somehow being pr
Tell Hamas that it’s a fantasy story
Everyone, even Victor, will know that Cindy is lying about this. She is saying there is no one looting any aid, something explicitly denied by Hamas. And Hamas themselves are taking credit for murdering hungry people trying to get aid.
Normally I wouldn’t reply to you because you’re an absolute moron that can’t follow the logical flow of a conversation but there you go.
