Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Ok good faith check Victor: do children die in wars, even wars you would consider just?
if the answer to this is yes then no, it is not necessarily true that people that support the war support children dying.
in this war, children arent collateral or accidental or incidental. they are one of the primary objectives. so like, if my aunt had balls...
Literally the only thing you can know based on the attendance of the rally was that they support the release of the hostages. And they are waving Israeli flags because they are meant to carry flags representing the countries of the hostages. Of course you are so quick to say they are bloodthirsty jews so you jump to conclusions.
thats all I need to know. you show up for an event waving an Israeli flag right now, then its pretty cut and dry that you support what the IDF is doing. also I dont see one thing in that link that calls for an end to the war or the mass slaughter of children.
You quite frequently call them innocent, and use people’s support of Israel to call them guilty. So I’m just creating this same us vs them narrative and throwing it up back at you.
the people in Boulder were innocent. see, you are conflating 2 different things. just bc they are hateful bigots that support Israel slaughtering children and innocents does not mean they arent innocent or that they are legitimate targets. thats absurd.
And Hamas was trying to kill anyone they could get their hands on,
there is no evidence of this and reems of evidence to the contrary.
in this war, children arent collateral or accidental or incidental. they are one of the primary objectives. so like, if my aunt had balls...
What metric are you using to assess this?
In any case, I take it you are acknowledging that in war, children can be collateral damage, so supporting a war doesn’t mean you support children dying in particular?
thats all I need to know. you show up for an event waving an Israeli flag right now, then its pretty cut and dry that you support what the IDF is doing. also I dont see one thing in that link that calls for an end to the war or the mass slaughter of children.
not really. the reason for having the israeli flag there is clear, and it’s not to show support for killing babies.
and I don’t see you telling “free palestine” protestors to call for the release of the hostages at their protests.
the people in Boulder were innocent. see, you are conflating 2 different things. just bc they are hateful bigots that support Israel slaughtering children and innocents does not mean they arent innocent or that they are legitimate targets. thats absurd.
ah just some innocent hateful bigots that salivate at dead children. lmao you are so disingenuous.
there is no evidence of this and reems of evidence to the contrary.
there’s plenty of evidence of this.
ah just some innocent hateful bigots that salivate at dead children. lmao you are so disingenuous.
right. juxtapose (your lol word) that with the Embassy staffers who were knowingly and willingly a part of the genocidal machine. a small part so I dont really support their murder. but they werent innocent.
So the Nova Music festival was attended by only Israeli soldiers?
so not going to address the question of what metric you’re using to determine that the Israel-Gaza war where children are the primary target? is it because you know those metrics don’t exist or because you just never thought about how you would quantify that hypothesis? I know you like to throw that claim around and point to raw numbers, but have you actually looked into whether the civilian casualty ratios or risk ratios for noncombatants are comparable to genocide situations?
right. juxtapose (your lol word) that with the Embassy staffers who were knowingly and willingly a part of the genocidal machine. a small part so I dont really support their murder. but they werent innocent.
no one is confused by why you’re phrasing things the way that you are. you’re the only person that thinks that saying “these people are disgusting genocidal baby killers who love raping palestinians” means you are against them being killed.
using the same standards Israel uses which is that anyone who has ever associated in any way with Hamas is a fair target, then yes. I mean, do you guys have a problem with people who spent 2 years training with Hamas as soldiers at any time in their life getting killed with their entire families?
so not going to address the question of what metric you’re using to determine that the Israel-Gaza war where children are the primary target? is it because you know those metrics don’t exist or because you just never thought about how you would quantify that hypothesis? I know you like to throw that claim around and point to raw numbers, but have you actually looked
yes I have looked into those numbers. and this is one of the worst in history and it will go down as such. not that people like you will have any shame about your support of it.
So BBC main page still has a front page article alleging Israeli tanks and soldiers fired on Palestinians queued up to receive aid from a Rafah distribution center.
But in their "Verify" page (which is buried in the webpage) but not the front page article BBC acknowledges the so called video "evidence" of this alleged event is fraudulent, as the video occurred 3 miles away in Khan Yunis at a different time of the day. And there are reports of a completely unrelated incident where masked gunmen dressed as civilians (most likely Hamas) attacked Palestinians that seems to line up with this video evidence.
So 20,000 cell phone cameras at the Rafah distribution center and not one shred of evidence any of the claims coming from Hamas, Red Cross or other "eye witness" reports are factual. And this lines up with all the surveillance Israel has released showing absolutely nothing happened.
It really does seem all it was completely made up; and Hamas, Red Cross and other so called "witnesses" are just lying. And BBC is well aware of this, and is just lying with them.
Nice journalism you have there.
using the same standards Israel uses which is that anyone who has ever associated in any way with Hamas is a fair target, then yes. I mean, do you guys have a problem with people who spent 2 years training with Hamas as soldiers at any time in their life getting killed with their entire families?
If Israel's standards are abominable, which I think you'd say, then why would it be ok for Hamas to follow them?
Hamas soldiers chose to tunnel under hospitals/mosques, fire on infidels from their cover, and use the standard rules of warfare against its opponents.
After Oct 7, when Hamas murdered 1200 Israelis and then hid in tunnels and used civilian buildings as shields, how was Israel supposed to appropriately respond? "Aw shucks welp we'll get 'em next time!"?
So BBC main page still has a front page article alleging Israeli tanks and soldiers fired on Palestinians queued up to receive aid from a Rafah distribution center. But in their "Verify" page (which is buried in the webpage) but not the front page article BBC acknowledges the so called video "evidence" of this alleged event is fraudulent, as the video occurred 3 miles away in
the video evidence was posted by Israel. so yes ofc it was fraudulent.
there is plenty of cell phone and video posts from the Rafah incident as well as survivor testimonies. but since you only believe anything from Israel, well guess what, they themselves admitted to firing on the starving people desperate for food near Rafah.
the video evidence was posted by Israel. so yes ofc it was fraudulent.
there is plenty of cell phone and video posts from the Rafah incident as well as survivor testimonies. but since you only believe anything from Israel, well guess what, they themselves admitted to firing on the starving people desperate for food near Rafah.
No there isn't. There is one video that even BBC admits is fake (not in the articles they are using to defame Israel of course; but buried)
the video is not fake. it was from a different area at a different time. and it was released and promoted by ISRAEL.
but Ive seen plenty of videos from the Rafah thing.
yes I have looked into those numbers. and this is one of the worst in history and it will go down as such. not that people like you will have any shame about your support of it.
oh it’s one of the worst in history? interesting. have you compared the civilian to combatant death rate to other urban conflicts to see if it is wildly out of whack? because apparently you have strong empirical evidence that it is one of the worst in history. I’d love to see this comparison and evidence you are confident exists and shows that it’s a genocide, and one of the worst in history mind you.
So BBC main page still has a front page article alleging Israeli tanks and soldiers fired on Palestinians queued up to receive aid from a Rafah distribution center. But in their "Verify" page (which is buried in the webpage) but not the front page article BBC acknowledges the so called video "evidence" of this alleged event is fraudulent, as the video occurred 3 miles away in
Israel does not allow journalists from foreign media outlets into Gaza so they are unable to confirm anything independently. They rely on reports from people in Gaza.
The question you should be asking is why.
Why don’t people understand that Hamas could release the hostages today, fully demobilise and go straight to The Hague to be arrested and prosecuted and that still wouldn’t end the genocide because Israel’s plans for Gaza are genocidal independent of its “war”.
Why don’t people understand that Hamas could release the hostages today, fully demobilise and go straight to The Hague to be arrested and prosecuted and that still wouldn’t end the genocide because Israel’s plans for Gaza are genocidal independent of its “war”.
Maybe the current Israeli right under Bibi has some genocidal intent, but for the vast majority of Israel’s history this has been demonstrably false. However, October 7th and the ensuing conflict has changed the landscape a lot, almost exclusively to the Palestinian’s detriment so maybe that sentiment isn’t too far off now.
Why don’t people understand that Hamas could release the hostages today, fully demobilise and go straight to The Hague to be arrested and prosecuted and that still wouldn’t end the genocide because Israel’s plans for Gaza are genocidal independent of its “war”.
It's because that isn't true.
[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/03/world/middleeast/gaza-aid-site-shooting-israel.html"]Israeli Soldiers Open Fire Near Gaza Aid Site. Gaza Health Officials Say 27 Are Killed.
The Israeli military said its troops began shooting after people strayed from a designated route toward a food distribution site.[/URL]
Maybe the current Israeli right under Bibi has some genocidal intent, but for the vast majority of Israel’s history this has been demonstrably false.
The genocide may be new, but ethnic cleansing was always the intent. Ben-Gurion, Jabotinsky, etc. went on about "transfer."
New, more specific evidence"
You guys are getting really desperate to give aid distribution back to Hamas. Remember, Hamas had a deal on the table for a 60 day ceasefire which they refused. That’s why they’re calling these alleged killings the “WitkoffMassacre”. The media who uses that term is going full mask off on their support of Hamas.
Remember, Hamas had a deal on the table for a 60 day ceasefire which they refused.
you guys live in fantasy land
Literally for the release of 1000+ brave Palestinian political prisoners and Hamas refused.
Israel has accepted the new proposal for a ceasefire with Hamas from US envoy Steve Witkoff, according to an Israeli official.
The proposal, viewed by CNN, includes Hamas releasing 10 Israeli hostages and 18 deceased hostages in exchange for 125 Palestinian prisoners serving life sentences and 1,111 Gazans detained since the war began. Negotiations toward a permanent ceasefire would begin immediately on the first day of the 60-day truce, according to the proposal.
