Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Hamas agreed with the USA proposal
then Israel changed it like always.
these ceasefire negotiations are a charade anyway and just another ruse to continue the mass murder of starving civilians. Hamas wants to end the war. Israel wants to keep the genocide of starving children going.
Of course Hamas wants to end a war they are badly losing, including having their genocidal leadership get rocked over and over again.
But your article doesn’t show that the deal was agreed to by anyone. It shows that Hamas agreed to a verbal understanding of a framework of a deal. What in the hell does that even mean? It sounds like it’s inclusive of the deal that is on the table right now, if a “framework” of a deal is all that’s needed to constitute accepting a deal.
Right now they have zero leverage whatsoever and there is a deal on the table Israel has agreed to where they will get 1000+ prisoners. They should take the generous offer to receive their detainees many of which are terrorists and release innocent hostages.
Overnight, Hamas and U.S. officials reached a verbal “understanding” on the framework of a Gaza ceasefire, sources involved with the negotiations told Drop Site’s Jeremy Scahill.
it means that they agreed to the deal the USA offered and then Israel changed the terms. this is the standard pattern. bc the goal of the war is the extermination of the Palestinian people.
it means that they agreed to the deal the USA offered and then Israel changed the terms. this is the standard pattern. bc the goal of the war is the extermination of the Palestinian people.
wait, reached a verbal understanding to the framework of a deal is the same as accepting a US deal?
again, what’s wrong with the deal Israel has agreed to? Israel is the one that has the leverage in the situation, and right now the ball is in Hamas’s court. And it’s irrelevant if you think Israel will back out of the deal, Hamas has not agreed to it so there’s nothing to back out of. a deal is only a deal once two sides agree.
Israel makes a big mistake everytime it anexchanreleases prisoners in exchanges.
it's either those people aren't an actual threat to Israel and then they should be released regardless, or they should be killed if they are a threat to Israel.
it's not like prisoners exchanged by countries after wars, with distance and so on.
those prisoners become active combatants the day after release (when they were a threat to begin with)
wait, reached a verbal understanding to the framework of a deal is the same as accepting a US deal?again, what’s wrong with the deal Israel has agreed to? Israel is the one that has the leverage in the situation, and right now the ball is in Hamas’s court. And it’s irrelevant if you think Israel will back out of the deal, Hamas has not agreed to it so there’s nothing to back ou
Israel already backed out of the original deal. they continually change the terms that Hamas agrees to. the red line is that Hamas wants to end the war and Israel just wants its hostages back and then a resumption of mass murder. thats bc the entire premise and ideology of Israel (and the West really) is predicated on extermination of native peoples.
Israel already backed out of the original deal. they continually change the terms that Hamas agrees to. the red line is that Hamas wants to end the war and Israel just wants its hostages back and then a resumption of mass murder. thats bc the entire premise and ideology of Israel (and the West really) is predicated on extermination of native peoples.
I can grant you that Israel backed out of the original deal and it doesn’t change the point at all. The point is that right now there is a deal on the table, Israel has agreed to it and Hamas is refusing. Given that Hamas is badly losing the war the only leverage they have is that they don’t mind their civilians dying and they have hostages.
As for whether Israel is genocidal, if it’s genocidal in the same way as the West then I don’t really care because the West is the most permissive regime in human history. Ask conservative Islamic scholars their opinions on war and conquest, they will be far more violent and genocidal than the most right-wing Zionist ever could be.
Hamas agreed with the USA proposal
then Israel changed it like always.
these ceasefire negotiations are a charade anyway and just another ruse to continue the mass murder of starving civilians. Hamas wants to end the war. Israel wants to keep the genocide of starving children going.
No. You live in an extremely strange self-curated infobubble.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/5/31...
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-e...
You guys are getting really desperate to give aid distribution back to Hamas. Remember, Hamas had a deal on the table for a 60 day ceasefire which they refused. That’s why they’re calling these alleged killings the “WitkoffMassacre”. The media who uses that term is going full mask off on their support of Hamas.
The lack of accountability and troop discipline have become more blatant as the war went on. A year ago, even with Netanyahu at the helm, there would at least be some token inquiries and reprimands for the loss of discipline.
Now it’s like they ignored warning shots and that’s that.
You cannot diminish the humanity of others without diminishing your own. Israel as a whole needs to find its soul and conscience to prosecute this war more humanely and avoid becoming indistinguishable from the monsters they are trying to kill.
Israel will win. Many many Palestinians will die. Absolutely nobody in their right mind should doubt these two facts. What the Israelis should protect is their own souls and humanity, to say nothing of their international standing/reputation.
I am not saying Israel and Hamas are moral equivalents at all. There is a giant moral gulf before Israel and Hamas. Hamas is as close to pure evil as modern organizations go and the Israelis as a whole would rather just live in peace if their neighbors would let them.
But Netanyahu is speed running Israel to cross the gulf.
The lack of accountability and troop discipline have become more blatant as the war went on. A year ago, even with Netanyahu at the helm, there would at least be some token inquiries and reprimands for the loss of discipline.Now it’s like they ignored warning shots and that’s that.You cannot diminish the humanity of others without diminishing your own. Israel as a whole needs t
I believe that is an empirical question. Have you looked at the numbers and determined that as the war has gone on, the casualty ratio has become less discriminatory? Because I suspect the opposite is actually the case.
And to be honest, I totally agree that Netanyahu has become more blatant and emboldened as the war has gone on, particularly after the election of Donald Trump when various proposals of ethnic cleansing have been floated by the White House/State Department and the governing coalition of Israel. I also agree that Netanyahu is particularly motivated to continue the war effort over and against the desires of the Israeli population who generally wants the war to end and the hostages to come home.
I must admit I had corporal vile as the last genocider standing in this thread but it looks like checraisdra is the favourite now.
I must admit I had corporal vile as the last genocider standing in this thread but it looks like checraisdra is the favourite now.
I’m a genocider? Interesting. If you think someone challenging your insane lefty narrative is a genocider I can see why you would think that a genocide is going on.
No. You live in an extremely strange self-curated infobubble.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/5/31...
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-e...
check the dates and my subjects. Hamas rejected the ISRAEL proposal around the 31st. but they first agreed to the USA proposal a few days earlier.
this is a good outline of the timeline.
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/hamas-res...
this is a pattern: Hamas agrees to the mediators and guarantors such as the USA, Egypt, Qatar etc. Israel then rejects or modifies the arrangement. and then Hamas rejects Israel's new demands. and that is because, bottom line, Hamas wants to end the war and establish peace but Israel wants to continue the war so they can exterminate every single Palestinian.
The lack of accountability and troop discipline have become more blatant as the war went on. A year ago, even with Netanyahu at the helm, there would at least be some token inquiries and reprimands for the loss of discipline.Now it’s like they ignored warning shots and that’s that.You cannot diminish the humanity of others without diminishing your own. Israel as a w
right. wont someone think of the souls and mental state of the people burning children alive for fun and profit. this post will not age well. maybe you wont be alive for it and maybe noone will see it. but maybe in a few years, and certainly in a few decades Israel will go into the dustbin of history with the same connotations as the Nazis.
check the dates and my subjects. Hamas rejected the ISRAEL proposal around the 31st. but they first agreed to the USA proposal a few days earlier.this is a good outline of the timeline.
this is a pattern: Hamas agrees to the mediators and guarantors such as the USA, Egypt, Qatar etc.
Without going too far into the weeds, here is the first example of an “accepted” ceasefire proposal that Hamas says it “agreed” to.
Hamas’s draft reintroduces terms from a deal that Hamas said it made with Witkoff on May 25. Israel rejected that document and four days later, on May 29, Witkoff and Israel announced new terms, which would permit Israel to resume its genocidal war after 60 days and to keep its forces entrenched deep inside Gaza. It contained no guarantees for allowing the unrestricted flow of food, medicine, fuel and other life essentials to the Gaza Strip.
In a post on X Saturday, soon after he received Hamas’s response, Witkoff denounced Hamas’s draft. “It is totally unacceptable and only takes us backward. Hamas should accept the framework proposal we put forward as the basis for proximity talks, which we can begin immediately this coming week,” Witkoff wrote. “That is the only way we can close a 60-day ceasefire deal in the coming days… and in which we can have at the proximity talks substantive negotiations in good-faith to try to reach a permanent ceasefire.”
Senior Hamas official Basem Naim disputed Witkoff’s characterization. “We did not reject Mr. Witkoff’s proposal. We agreed with him on a proposal, which he deemed acceptable for negotiation. We then received the other party's response (the Israelis) through Mr. Witkoff, which rejected all that we had agreed upon with him,” Naim told Drop Site. “Nevertheless, we responded positively and responsibly, responding to him in a manner that fulfilled the aspirations and demands of our people. Why is the Israeli response considered the only response for negotiation? This violates the integrity and fairness of mediation and constitutes a complete bias towards the other side.”
Hamas is SAYING that they are accepting a proposal by Witkoff in private only for Witkoff to publicly contradict them. I can only speculate on what’s happening in private, but at least what’s being said publicly contradicts the Hamas narrative which is… unsurprising.
And now Hamas is actively executing Palestinians who procure aid outside their influence.
And they are even advertising this on Arab social media, with full confidence the western media will cover for them, which they are; instead reporting complete fake stories of IDF attacking Palestinians.
Without going too far into the weeds, here is the first example of an “accepted” ceasefire proposal that Hamas says it “agreed” to.Hamas is SAYING that they are accepting a proposal by Witkoff in private only for Witkoff to publicly contradict them. I can only speculate on what’s happening in private, but at least what’s being said publicly contradicts the Hamas narrative which
Hamas has been doing the same thing for 2 years. They take a proposal, completely change it without changing their demands at all, and then announce they accepted it.
And then the pro Hamas western media announces that Hamas accepted the proposal, knowing full well this is a lie.
the impasse is that Hamas wants peace and the end of the siege and the return of the tortured concentration camp victims. Israel wants to continue murdering children and raping prisoners to death.
I can grant you that Israel backed out of the original deal and it doesn’t change the point at all. The point is that right now there is a deal on the table, Israel has agreed to it and Hamas is refusing. Given that Hamas is badly losing the war the only leverage they have is that they don’t mind their civilians dying and they have hostages.As for whether Israel is genocidal, i
Are Hamas really badly losing the war? Sure, the civilians are suffering more than ever, but that doesn't necessarily mean the IDF is winning. Just look at what happened to occupying forces in Vietnam and Algeria despite the millions of civilians that were killed.
According to the IDF, the Qassam brigade currently has 40,000 soldiers. Added to this are 20 years worth of buildup in RPGs, AK/sniper ammo, and all the unexploded ordinance to make IEDs you would ever want. And that pesky tunnel system.
Do you follow what is actually happening on the ground? The IDF has drone surveillance with a shoot-to-kill order on 75% of the strip, but ever since the Beit Hanoun debacle in December, they haven't sent troops or even tanks or bulldozers into the vast majority of the part that still has buildings.
In other words, Israel is not even close to achieving their objective of occupying Gaza and getting the hostages back. They are doing a great job of ensuring that future generations cut off their funding, however.
A coalition of influential families in Gaza just released an official statement saying Hamas does not represent them, they want Hamas gone, and want the PA to take over as the government of Gaza.
I predict mostly crickets on this from western govts and media, which are completely supportive of Hamas.
the impasse is that Hamas wants peace and the end of the siege and the return of the tortured concentration camp victims. Israel wants to continue murdering children and raping prisoners to death.
Hamas probably wants everything to die down ASAP. The 58th anniversary of the Six-Day War is coming up, so maybe Israel will hold a remembrance for this and let their guard down slightly, and Hamas can break in and murder/rape more civilians.
Oh right this is a guy who still believes the mass rape hoax. Even the most ardent Zionists don't spout off on that anymore.
Are Hamas really badly losing the war? Sure, the civilians are suffering more than ever, but that doesn't necessarily mean the IDF is winning. Just look at what happened to occupying forces in Vietnam and Algeria despite the millions of civilians that were killed. According to the IDF, the Qassam brigade currently has 40,000 soldiers. Added to this are 20 years worth of buildup
I don't think Israel's (Netanyahu's) actual goal is to occupy Gaza or to get the hostages back. I think they are trying to basically foster a civil war where the Palestinian people overthrow Hamas themselves. And they might actually be close to that goal. But to accomplish this, Israel needs to keep UNRWA, and more generally the internationally community out, as UNRWA will side with Hamas and not give Palestinians the opportunity to rebel.
I don't think Israel's (Netanyahu's) actual goal is to occupy Gaza or to get the hostages back. I think they are trying to basically foster a civil war where the Palestinian people overthrow Hamas themselves. And they might actually be close to that goal. But to accomplish this, Israel needs to keep UNRWA, and more generally the internationally community out, as UNRWA will s
Qassam and Saraya Al-Quds are capable of keeping the IDF from taking power over the strip, so I doubt Israeli-backed gangs with limited knowledge of the tunnel systems are going to be able to do anything.
If anything, we will see Palestinian defectors running to the Israeli border begging for mercy before a civil war.
Knowing the Netanyahu administration, they will probably gun them down with drones instead of taking the easy PR win.
