The Impending Death of Modern Capitalism
Let's make sure we're all on the same page on the definition of capitalism.
It's basically a system in which private owne
Human life surviving and thriving either ultimately matters or it doesn’t. If it ultimately matters, then it has truth value and is morally good in as far as being in alignment with truth / reality is better than not.If the survival of human life ultimately doesn’t matter, then there are no shoulds. And you are a villain.
Life on Earth has been with us for 4 billion years. Human
Survival of life is what matters to life.
Nice of you to think you are part of the plan.
To explain why men commit suicide more often than women and why it is relevant to group survival, I like to use the analogy of a lion pride.
In a typical lion pride, you have 1-3 adult males. Up to 15 adult females and a bunch of cubs. When adult male cubs reach ~ 3 years of age and start to become sexually mature, they are expelled.
Why is this ? All groups require a hierarchy for decision making. In a lion pride, an adult male sits at the top of the hierarchy. They eat first. They provide territorial protection.
When the time for succession comes, the old male lion is either killed or sent into exile. This is necessary in order to preserve the hierarchy. When female lions become too old to hunt or have cubs, they are not expelled. They are allowed to remain with the pack and eat until they die.
How do human animals sort this out ? When a human reaches the point where they are no longer useful to the pack, the pack often shuns them and there is no place for them. So they go into exile or they remove themselves from the equation entirely.
Suicide is an adaptation made for the benefit of the group.
When a member (most often a male) reaches the state where they feel they are no longer an asset to the group, they remove themselves from the group. Sometimes this is in response to shunning. This leaves more resources for the members of the group who are still relevant to its ongoing survival.
So, according to you, this is the state of mind of someone in suicidal ideation: “How can I most benefit humanity as a whole?”
It’s not “Life is not worth living”?
So, according to you, this is the state of mind of someone in suicidal ideation: “How can I most benefit humanity as a whole?”
It’s not “Life is not worth living”?
The mindset of someone in suicidal ideation is more along the lines of "what benefit am I to anyone / I don't want to be a burden / life is too painful to endure ".
To explain why men commit suicide more often than women and why it is relevant to group survival, I like to use the analogy of a lion pride. In a typical lion pride, you have 1-3 adult males. Up to 15 adult females and a bunch of cubs. When adult male cubs reach ~ 3 years of age and start to become sexually mature, they are expelled. Why is this ? All groups require a hierarchy
And these old male lions will suicide after being exiled? Is there even one documented instance of a lion clearly and intentionally killing itself? Perhaps jumping off a tall cliff? According to you, this should happen, right?
Who said anything about a plan ?
Whether nature was designed via a plan or not is a mystery.
Regardless of how it came into being, it's marvelous and awesome. I'm grateful to have the opportunity to contemplate and learn about it.
I do, from time to time, try to imagine the force(s) which resulted in the observable universe. The creation of time, matter and energy. The western human word for this is "God".
It is entirely possible that we are living in a simulation with an incredibly detailed resolution and seemingly infinite parameters. So maybe there is a "plan" ?
Maybe there are an infinite number of simulations and we're here for the entertainment of the simulators ?
If there is a plan .... it's above my pay grade to understand it. I'm not God. I'm just a human who pays attention to details.
And these old male lions will suicide after being exiled? Is there even one documented instance of a lion clearly and intentionally killing itself? Perhaps jumping off a tall cliff? According to you, this should happen, right?
It's not a lion's nature to kill himself and they don't have the tools to pull it off.
An exiled lion might either starve to death or risk being mauled to death and eaten by a pack of hyenas.
Humans are more resourceful. They have guns and prefer a quick and sudden death to one which is long and drawn out.
If you had the choice between shooting yourself in the head or being eaten by a pack of hyenas, which would you choose ? Personally, I would choose the bullet. Lions don't have that choice.
It's not a lion's nature to kill himself and they don't have the tools to pull it off. An exiled might either starve to death or risk being mauled to death and eaten by a pack of hyenas.Humans are more resourceful. They have guns and prefer a quick and sudden death to one which is long and drawn out. If you had the choice between shooting yourself in the head or being eaten by
So personal preference toward pain avoidance can override life’s desire to maximize group survival?
How does that work in your model?
It’s fascinating to see how far you’re willing to take this.
It’s fascinating to see how far you’re willing to take this.
All of this distorting so that you don’t have to confront moral reality.
So personal preference toward pain avoidance can override life’s desire to maximize survival?
How does that work in your model?
It’s fascinating to see how far you’re willing to take this.
To properly understand survival, one must understand that it exists at different levels.
Survival is not only about the self. It's about the herd.
Nature has installed in us mechanisms which are beneficial for the herd but not necessarily for the benefit of every individual in the herd. Take mutation for example. Most mutations are a failure and to the detriment of the mutated individual. But every once in a while a successful and advantageous mutation comes along which benefits the herd at large.
We are not programmed solely for our personal survival. We are programmed for herd survival.
Suicide of a useless individual is beneficial for the herd. An individual who decides to remove themselves from the consumption of the herd's limited resources is acting for the benefit of the herd.
To properly understand survival, one must understand that it exists at different levels. Survival is not only about the self. It's about the herd. Nature has installed in us mechanisms which are beneficial for the herd but not necessarily for the benefit of every individual in the herd. Take mutation for example. Most mutations are a failure and to the detriment of the mutated
Me:
Estimate the number of ritualistic child sacrifices in human history. Just give me a number.
Grok:
10,000,000
How do the estimated 10,000,000 ritualistic child sacrifices promote herd survival? Why did they ritualize them if it was solely based on preserving resources? And why children rather than elderly?
Me:
Estimate the number of ritualistic child sacrifices in human history. Just give me a number.
Grok:
10,000,000
How do the estimated 10,000,000 ritualistic child sacrifices promote herd survival? Why did they ritual them if it was solely based on preserving resources? And why children rather than elderly?
Look at what's happening with the Trump Administration today. The cuts to USAID have been estimated to have killed over 300,000 people already. We no longer provide pharmaceutical assistance which prevents the transmission of HIV from infected mothers to their babies. Bill Gates is furious with Elon Musk over this.
Every community has a finite carrying capacity and must learn to live within its resources. A community whose fertility exceeds its resources limitations must find a way to curb population growth.
Nature is taking care of that for us. Male testosterone levels have dropped by nearly 50% in the last half century in the US. Young men can't afford to buy homes and raise children and we have a rapidly growing incel population which wants Trump to destroy the paradigm which condemns them to that fate.
Every behavior we observe has some basis in survival. Nature is brutal.
Look at what's happening with the Trump Administration today. The cuts to USAID have been estimated to have killed over 300,000 people already. We no longer provide pharmaceutical assistance which prevents the transmission of HIV from infected mothers to their babies. Bill Gates is furious with Elon Musk over this. Every community has a finite carrying capacity and must learn t
Would you agree that it’s better to align yourself with reality than not?
Nowhere do I even remotely suggest that requiring an individual to suffer chronic and excruciating pain is beneficial for group survival.
To the contrary .... it's probably best for the group for those individuals to depart.
Clearly, since they are a massive drain on the group. And yet they persist. How? Why?
After all this time, evolution is still that flawed and inefficient to allow so many in chronic illness to not be eliminated?
Clearly, since they are a massive drain on the group. And yet they persist. How? Why?
After all this time, evolution is still that flawed and inefficient to allow so many in chronic illness to not be eliminated?
"Evolution" is what happens generation by generation in living beings.
It's not "flawed" same as sea tides cannot be "flawed".
What can be suboptimal is our gene pool.
And yes, our gene pool having empathy genes that strive to keep costly chronically ill people alive is flawed, in the sense that it would be better for our species if we didn't feel that way.
Why does it happen?.because we haven't been selected for that. People didn't reach old age that much in the state of nature nor they kept living as a costly element for the tribe for long with chronic debilitating diseases.
So we didn't have tribes competing among each other, some ruthless enough to remove their dead weights, some empathic, for evolution to have it's course.
It's a recent development
"Evolution" is what happens generation by generation in living beings.It's not "flawed" same as sea tides cannot be "flawed".What can be suboptimal is our gene pool.And yes, our gene pool having empathy genes that strive to keep costly chronically ill people alive is flawed, in the sense that it would be better for our species if we didn't feel that way.Why does it happen?.beca
Given that resources are finite and limited, life is evolving toward ever increasing ruthlessness until, ultimately, life is unsustainable? Is this your view of reality?
Then, to the degree that you view yourself as more ruthless to your outgroup category than the average person is the degree that you see yourself as more fitted to reality?
Given that resources are finite and limited, life is evolving toward ever increasing ruthlessness until, ultimately, life is unsustainable? Is this your view of reality?
Then, to the degree that you view yourself as more ruthless to your outgroup category than the average person is the degree that you see yourself as more fitted to reality?
life isn't confined to this planet by physics so yes, but over a timeframe so long as to make all this conversation a tad moot.
and at the end it will all be about whether entropy is reversible or not, see Asimov "not enough data to answer the question".
the main way I see myself more fitted to reality is that I have children. I think people in their 40s with no kids already lost completely at the game of life they linger like zombie NPCs in a game they aren't part of anymore at all.
as for other people with children, I think the differences are far smaller than they appear as long as they invest resources in them to try to perpetuate their bloodlines.
whatever we say is mostly theater what matters is if our children will procreate enough or not. everything else is insignificant in comparison. and j think people with children tend to care about that enough to make them fairly similar to me at the end.
life isn't confined to this planet by physics so yes, but over a timeframe so long as to make all this conversation a tad moot.and at the end it will all be about whether entropy is reversible or not, see Asimov "not enough data to answer the question".the main way I see myself more fitted to reality is that I have children. I think people in their 40s with no kids already lost
Beyond procreating, wouldn’t you agree that aligning with reality is of upmost importance not only for yourself but for your ingroup?
Further, wouldn’t you agree that it would be far better for your descendants if ultimate reality were much more life affirming than the ruthless “dog eat dog” version of reality? If so, wouldn’t it follow that you should want the more life affirming version of reality to ultimately be true and you should want to make alignment with that reality work?
Continuing, a heightened immune system toward the more life affirming version of reality only makes sense if you are in a vulnerable position in the more ruthless version of reality, correct? Are you in such a vulnerable position in the more ruthless reality that you cannot afford to allow yourself to escape it at all, not even for your descendants’ sake?
Clearly, since they are a massive drain on the group. And yet they persist. How? Why?
After all this time, evolution is still that flawed and inefficient to allow so many in chronic illness to not be eliminated?
We have lived in an era of surplus. In times of surplus, we have the luxury of allocating resources to those who have nothing to offer in return.
We also live in a society where euthanasia is considered immoral or illegal. So for many, there is no alternative to living until the end.
But the rules change amid scarcity.
People born after WW2 in the US have no real acquaintance with scarcity. They've lived in a fortunate bubble of time. Scarcity is going to be a shock to them.
We have lived in an era of surplus. In times of surplus, we have the luxury of allocating resources to those who have nothing to offer in return. We also live in a society where euthanasia is considered immoral or illegal. So for many, there is no alternative to living until the end. But the rules change amid scarcity. People born after WW2 in the US have no real acquaintance w
This is a common narrative I’ve seen spoken of by people who don’t truly know how reality works. The best story wins in the end, and this story is lame and impotent.
