MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Also, Johnny Grooms was throwing out NOIR cards to idiots like it was candy, especially for one poker who deliberately swallowed broken glass to get some money from Arizona iced tea and Sheetz.

Promo drop is +EV for winning players. A winning player can win their fair share of promo's directly. Losing players invariably end up putting their promo money back into the poker economy where winning players scoop it up. This means that winning players get more than their fair share of promo money finding its way in their pockets.

Poker is a beautiful thing because it has just the right amount of luck to let rec players win frequently enough to enjoy themselves and keep coming back. Frequent smaller promos are great to give them another way to win without skill. Small promo's stay in the pokey economy. Some 4/8 limit or small NL player wins $200K, that money disappears from the poker economy forever.

Dealer compensation is not opaque, they make ~ $5 per hour in wages from the casino. Everything else is tips.

Following logic that dealers aren't doing anything that needs to be rewarded when they deal you a high hand, there is no need to reward them when they deal a hand that you end up winning the pot with. Guess that $5 per hour in wages is sufficient?

I don't want to speak for the original poster, but I think the idea there was that as far as the dealer's actions, there is no difference between a high hand and any other hand, so why is it expected that they get a piece of the promo win, especially since they (presumably) got tipped when the hand was won? I think the original question wasn't about the dealer's total compensation, but about the fact that players are expected to give a percentage of promo money they "won" to the dealer when the dealer didn't do any extra work dealing that hand than any other hand.

If we consider the tips as part of their total compensation, then it isn't a reward, but something they are paid for the work they are done, right? If that is the case, then did they really do enough extra work when they dealt the hand that lead to a player hitting a high-hand promo for $500? If the promo was one of the lottery style where they could win anything from some small amount up to some large amount, then should they be tipped based on the lowest amount possible or what was actually won, even though the amount was a matter of chance? As far as I'm aware, the only extra work the dealers have to do with a high hand is to call the floor for them to verify and record the hand, and they have to do that whether the hand ends up winning or not.

Also, dealer's compensation may not be opaque to you, or some others, but I know I don't really know how much dealers make and from what. This is the first I've heard that their base salary is around $5. Another question would be how are tips distributed? Do dealers keep 100%? I know from some people I went to school with that different restaurants have different policies with regard to tips and how they are distributed. Some places have to tip out a lot of other staff in the restaurant while others are pooled and some others are even different from those. I haven't gone looking, but I don't remember reading anything about how MGM poker dealers handle their tips, so I don't think it is unreasonable for the average player to not really have any idea how much a poker dealer makes.

There is likely a tipping containment thread of some sort and I assume mods are going to give us a warning soon that tip specific conversation does not belong in a Venues thread. So this will be my last comments about tipping in general.

How do you decide how much to tip when winning a cash pot? $1 per hand regardless pot size? Tip or no tip if you take it down preflop? Extra for big pots or coolers? When I go to a restaurant I tip based on quality of service and the bill amount. Expensive restaurants I tip more.

With that said, choosing how much to tip is a personal decision and everyone is free to make their own choices. I prefer non-tipping cultures with people being paid a living wage.

I apologize about my opaque comments. Assumed that how dealers are compensated was common knowledge. Looks like I was wrong about that.

Dealers at MGM keep all of their own tips from cash games. The vast majority of rooms that I have played in are like that, but I have played in a few where dealers do pool their tips. Places that pool tips don't incentivize bad dealers to get better or motive others to be exceptional.

Tournament compensation is a little different. There is still the paltry hourly wage. There is also the dealer "add on" fees. I believe the total fees collected for the tournament are divided by the number of downs dealt. Each dealer then gets their share of this money based on the number of downs they personally dealt in the tourney. I'm little less sure of exact details of this next bit - those that cash in a tourney can also choose to designate a portion of their winnings as tips back to dealers. Any extra tourney winning tips like this then also get split up amongst dealers based on how many downs they dealt.

There is a small stakes YouTube vlogger (Poker Nomad) in Vegas that also deals. He is very transparent about his income from dealing. I recommend you check out one of his videos to get an idea of how dealer compensation works in almost all poker rooms in the states.

Also worth noting that the 3rd promo dollar isn't dropped until the pot is $60. It was dropped at $30 at Live last time I was there but that was awhile ago so that could have changed.

Correct about Live taking the 3rd promo dollar at 30 in 1/3. 2/5 it is 1 at 10, 2nd at 30 and 3rd at 100.

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Very good room. Dealers are highly competent, games are really good (small sample size across 1-2 and 2-5 so far).

Only complaint is drinks servers are almost nowhere to be seen ever, and the comps system is weird.

So what i can make out re comps:

They go onto your account as you play and can build up etc and stay there for years. However, to actually use them you have to go to the front desk, tell them where youre going to eat and how much you want to transfer, and you have to use that full amount otherwise you forfeit it (unless you bring a receipt back to the desk showing you didnt use all of it).

Am i understanding this correctly?

Yeah you're correct. It's unbelievable that this place has been open for nearly 10 years and they still have that completely archaic comps system.

And yes, drink servers are not only significantly understaffed, but also very unreliable once you actually do get one.

Why are you surprised? This allows the casino to pay out way less on poker comps versus simply allowing you to spend your comps directly.

I'm sure they don't do this for slots or table games since the whales would go elsewhere.

Yeah it's certainly deliberate rather than just incompetence.

Annoying for sure but won't stop me using them all lol.

Typically at my prior "home" casinos I've ended up stashing hundreds and hundreds and just then going nuts at the eg steakhouse twice a year

It also allows slot degens to play poker wo destroying their theo

How about they gave us less comps and save us the hustle?

But no, they want to offer higher nominal comps while engaging in price discrimination.

Like Fore said, it actually helps bring slots zombies in to play poker, which helps you more than some free shake shack. Slot degen comes to play poker, donks off a couple dimes, gets way less offers, is upset and never comes back to play poker again, plus the mgmnh dealers constantly ask for a card and are incredulous when someone doesn’t want to play with one.

I know a couple HOF slot punters that play in this room regularly and I would rather mgm switch to a centralized comps system to get these heroes back on the slots floor where they belong. I’m shocked, shocked myopic poker players want to end a system that helps them!

Do you really think a slot degen would be deterred if poker comps dropped from $1.50 to $1.40 or even $1.25 per hour?

Better yet, MGM could just stop nickel and diming us and keep the comps the same without forcing us to go to the floor every time we want to grab a bite.

There are times I enter the casino from the hotel side thinking I’ll just get something to eat, and I have to stop and head upstairs first to get the comp approved. That’s the opposite of good customer service.

Huh? You mean lower the rate and make it inclusive like the Caesar’s program? The whales would have to be sure to not use their card or take the big hit to their theo losing thousands in offers, meanwhile the dealers hound you for the card and these players are drunk or not thinking. Customer service for who, nits that don’t want to play with fish, what are you talking about?

Btw if it wasn’t clear I am actually on your side and want them to end this segregated comps program to empty the poker room out of any value players and get them out on the slot floor. Put out a petition and I’ll call/sign do whatever you want me to and get other people I know to do it as well. We have hosts and an easy million coin-in this year, so we can be some solid help to you on your windmill crusade.

MGM is giving us a nominal comp rate. The way they implement it however is that the true comp rate is lower because most people don't hustle to save every penny by calculating the precise amount they need when they ask for comps. So for example you go to buy dinner and you ask the floor to detract $20 from your card, but you spend $19. MGM figures that this works like the penny fraud in Office Space and they make thousands of dollars this way.

What I am saying is that I 'd rather that MGM gave me a lower nominal comp rate that's equal to the current true comp rate they give now rather than have to go through the hustle of having to go to the floor every time I want to grab something to eat.

I think I am very reasonable here. I don't think that what I am asking is going to have any big effect on how players behave. Having said that, if they kept the nominal rate the same and allowed us to use our cards as we saw fit, that would be even better.

My opinion is that the reason they do it this way is because they dont wanna give a $4 discount to some rando who shows up and plays poker for 2 hrs once every 6 months and then gets lunch before leaving.

I personally find it to be pennywise and pound foolish, because guys like that probably get a little annoyed they didnt “earn” anything for their play, and are less likely to come back often, but who knows

The casino comp system doesnt have to blindly sort players by average theoretical loss, and also even if it continues to do so, poker being included in a centralized system doesnt have to include tier credits or count as a day. They can do whatever they want. This means that asking for a more convenient comp system doesnt mean asking for scaring away the slot players. youre just spazzing out at a strawman theoretical system that nobody said they wanted.

At least half of what you post is just complete gibberish

Does the slot whale playing in the poker room not lower their theo anyway? Casino probably cares that they're here and not in the slots no?

If the slot whale plays a couple hours of poker instead of spinning $5,000 through a slot machine, that surely lowers their theoretical for the day by a wide margin. If the slot whale plays through the same $5,000 (100 spins of $50 each, which only takes 15-20 minutes) and then plays a couple hours of poker then slot whale's theoretical increases but only so slightly.

I am thinking 2 reasons based on interactions/discussions with a number of poker players at the other MGM property: Borgata.

1) There are a number of players, especially the wealthy recreational ones that play 2/5 & 5/10 that are not going to be bothered transferring what they perceive as pocket change onto the card. One of them was surprised when I encouraged him to stop by the desk at Borgata before we hit the steakhouse that he has accumulated $80+ in comps that he never bothered to transfer. Also, it is a classical price discrimination mechanism used by stores like BJs and CVS when customers who are less price sensitive and can not be bothered with "coupon clipping" miss out on the discounts.

2) I guess when the comps stay in the poker bravo system and not in the casino comp account, they do not show up as a corporate liability on MGM's sheets and as a result the parent company can cook their books a little bit.

P.S. I completely agree with you that this is bad for business and leaves a sour taste in customer mouths. No gambler wants to feel like a school kid begging for lunch money especially so after a losing session.

Poker doesnt give any TC so as far as the system is concerned, the player didnt show up. But like… not to get down a whole rabbit hole about how tier systems oughta work, but discouraging players from showing up for small losing sessions between their big ones is obviously stupid.

And anyway, again, asking our comp $ to be integrated into the main system is not implicitly asking for it to give any TC or for it to count against someone’s # of days in their theoretical loss. Just ridiculous strawmanning and shitstirring.

As an aside though, it would be spectacular if we could get a gold card for 150+ hrs of play like it works in las vegas, itd save me $200+/yr in resort fees for my yearly trip.

No. The systems are separate.

Certainly the casino could "link" the information but as of earlier this year at least they were not admitting to it and my wife offers don't indicate they have.

Others mentioned that they could link the systems and then discount or ignore the poker effect. Again that is possible but they would have a more difficult time convincing slot degens of this 'separation'.

Again, going simply by my wife, she has much greater comfort that the systems are treated different when she CAN'T see anything show up on her player's card.

As to just not turning the card it, that works for awhile. There is at least one local casino, which will not allow winning a promo (not including BBJP) if one hasn't entered their player card. Again, wife literally missed a small high hand because she would not log in at the poker table. She was fine with this to maintain her theo.

1) Certainly may be part of or majority of the reason

2) I doubt this. They are still a liability, Casino can just assume they will never be cashed. Maybe a smaller casino would try this but after what happened to airlines few decades ago, I doubt a sizable outfit like MGM would play this game.

Sour taste...you think that MGM is worried that a few poker mostly or even only folks are disatisfied while slot degen whales (of even just decent degens) are very happy with the system? Which one do you think they are going to try and keep happy?

This is particularly true for couples like wife and I. Our cards are linked so our play hits one card (and only that card gets the offeres but offers can be transferred to the other card). This works great for us because sometimes I go (there is no MGM casino local) and a) I can collect her FP (which does hurt the theo so we don't do it often) and b) my poker play, real reason I would be there, doesn't hurt.