Israel/Palestine thread

You kind of gave away why your premise is so dumb. Why would groups opposed to the IRGC be supplying a proxy of the IRGC militarily? As I said before; war isn't horse racing with handicapping. You don't help out your opponent militarily so they can do better just because they are losing.

The Palestinians in the past received a lot of support from Sunni states. But by and by most of those states decided it was bad business and not beneficial to their own national interest, and the IRGC became their main military patron.

You understand Iran, NK and China supply Russia militarily, but not Ukraine. And no one says it is hypocritical. It is understood they are supporting the side they are aligned with.

Also, I would say the Palestinians are propped up mainly by UNRWA and Qatar. Iran just gives militant group weapons. They dont provide any other support. It is mostly a destructive form of support, which is the goal. To destroy and destabilize the Arab world and Israel as much as possible for their own interests.

LOL. the "analysis" was done by USAID. USAID is essentially a far left NGO that serves no American interests at all. US Aid has zero credibility as far as I am concerned, and cutting off their funding was probably one of the best things the Trump administration has done.

Israel media/social media is reporting that pretty much all of the UN trucks are being captured by militant groups (Hamas and allies) and most of the aid is being sold on the black market. And there is plenty of video to corroborate this is happening at some level, although we dont know the level it is happening at.

Western left media would never acknowledge this is happening at all, as it runs contrary to their preferred narrative. And most people would discount Israel media as being too biased the other way; so we are essentially left with an information vacuum.

It depends on willingness to enforce this view and willingness of Hamas to abdicate. If it just turns into a Yemen situation where half the country is controlled by an illegitimate govt, but they retain control with Iran still sending them weapons and UNRWA continuing to send aid, then it will be a pretty empty position.

Ironically, the international community taking this stance actually incentivizes Hamas and Netanyahu to keep fighting, as neither of them wants there to be a Palestinian state.

I actually dont see how the international community declaring a Palestinian state at this juncture helps the Palestinians at all. Seems more likely this is designed for Western nations to feel better about themselves and to placate their ever increasing Islamist domestic population, with no obvious path towards helping Palestinians at all.

There’s plenty of videos showing fanatical israelis taking food or just destroying it before it can get to Gaza.

As for the reports….well no it’s coming from numerous news agencies. More than that …forget US aid Israeli military officials are saying that Hamas has stolen a small portion of food, but it’s not widespread, so I don’t know what you’re talking about pal..

Hamas did steal from some of the smaller organizations that donated aid, as those groups were not always on the ground to oversee distribution, according to the senior Israeli officials and others involved in the matter. But, they say, there was no evidence that Hamas regularly stole from the United Nations, which provided the largest chunk of the aid.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world...

Truth is there is widespread disapproval toward the Netanyahu administration from Republicans and Democrats in America. People like Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens their millions of followers. Millions of conservatives who don’t follow these people who might even follow people further on the right or come to their own conclusions

John Mearsheimer: The Palestinian Genocide and How the West Has Been Deceived Into Supporting It

Tucker Carlson

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2VXbY4V7LC...

As Mearsheimer points out, Israel is faced with a dilemma as they have lost the support of the majority of the American people.. They can either attempt to change peoples opinion or they can change their own policy toward Gaza which would surely involve removing Netanyahu. Part of the big problem of the first choice is too many of the pro Israel People have no dialogue whatsoever… They just scream Nazi or antisemite at people. You also have simpleton people in the West who have their reasons for supporting Israel such as they will say “Palestinians will not be happy until every Jew is dead” that’s a complete propaganda. Or they will say things like “God gave the Jews all that land”. Those ladder group of people are among the most selfish people in America and really difficult to be around with. Some pro Netanyahu people do attempt to argue in good faith. I think some of them are in this thread but in the larger western discourse They are harder to come by.

Some in Israel do you want to see their policy toward Gaza changed but to that point you have the Netanyahu propaganda of claiming Jews would face extinction if we changed this or that , which of course is complete propaganda as Hamas is utterly incapable of taking Israel let alone defending Gaza.

What would help is a real investigation into October 7 as any reasonable person can ask how that occurred in the most monitored area of the world.

[QUOTE=TheKnight00;59057090]There’s plenty of videos showing fanatical israelis taking food or just destroying it before it can get to Gaza.

As for the reports….well no it’s coming from numerous news agencies. More than that …forget US aid Israeli military officials are saying that Hamas has stolen a small portion of food, but it’s not widespread, so I don’t know what you’re talking about pal..

Hamas did steal from some of the smaller organizations that donated aid, as those groups were not always on the ground to oversee distribution, according to the senior Israeli officials and others involved in the matter. But, they say, there was no evidence that Hamas regularly stole from the United Nations, which provided the largest chunk of the aid.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world...

When NY Times makes a report that aligns with their ideological prerogatives citing anonymous sources, I am going to go ahead and show an appropriate level of skepticism they are telling the truth.

Meanwhile there are infinite videos like this showing dudes with machine guns driving off with aid.

Whether that constitutes "widespread" theft of aid, I dont know. But I dont really trust NY Times, CNN or their anonymous sources to tell me the truth.

how do you know its Hamas? Israel and Bibi have bragged that the are arming gangs of thugs to steal the aid.

I just said I dont know how to evaluate infinite videos of dudes with machine guns driving off with full aid trucks. But I certainly dont trust CNN and their anonymous sources to tell me the truth.

Also, as with most propaganda, there is probably a lot of word manipulation at play. If Hamas or other militant groups take the aid, and then tax or sell it all, then maybe that isn't technically theft (at least from CNN perspective).

I dont even disagree that Israel wants to decrease the population of Gaza significantly (say 25-50%). I also think whether they want to admit it or no,t a lot of the rest of world leaders would probably agree this a good idea. I also believe it would be a good idea.

As is, Gaza has too many radicalized young people with no economic prospects. The solution (same as with the rest of the world) is for them to move places where they would have economic prospects.

The whole "ethnic cleansing" framing is counterproductive IMO.

Fair enough, as long as they aren't moving in next door to me.

It's either Hamas or gangs of thugs. If it's gangs of thugs then Hamas has lost control and shouldn't be running the place.

Well, just because it is the obvious solution doesn't mean it is going to happen. A lot of political reasons why it wont happen, no matter how much sense it makes.

Also, no one is going to ask you. Trump is an exception, but under most American presidents (and indeed much of the Western world) refugees are quietly flown in and relocated without anyone being the wiser.

You might wake up one day and see some Middle Eastern looking family moved in next door, and that will be that. But the good thing is unlike Europe where refugees are often settled in ethnic ghettos and live in parallel societies; in the US most people co-exist fairly well.

I understand your viewpoint. And I will be curious to ask you with regards to the babies of Gaza, who have lost their parents due to the war ….. if they had nowhere else to go but Israel, do you think that Israelis including those on the far right should volunteer to adopt those babies?

Why do you think it's a good idea to reduce the population of, how precisely would this reduction ensue and how wouldn't that be ethnic cleansing?

Question: do you believe the charge that Netanyahu assisted in bolstering Hamas with the express purpose of blocking a two-state solution with PLO/PA? If so, would this not be rewarding the far right’s strategy of undermining a two-state solution because they believe it will allow the expansion of settlements?

I went to Givat Shmuel yesterday to meet the friends from the unit who returned from Syria.

They told me what they saw and showed me videos. Anyone who is silent about the massacre of the Druze in Syria has no moral right to talk about Israel for even a second.

I saw what genocide looks like in practice. The television will not broadcast

This is an utterly insane take

these are your boys

The whole "ethnic cleansing" framing is just dumb.

There has been like 100 wars/civil wars in ht last 50 years, many ongoing right now, where refugees were created. And in every singe other one, refugees were moved. In fact, even without wars when a society has a large young population with little economic propects for other reasons, people move on. What do you think is going on with all the refugees/asylum seekers going to your country?

The whole idea that this is some singular exception where a giant population with no economic prospects have to stay in a walled in ghetto is extremely contrived and politically motivated, with no concern at all for the people involved, and has led to no good end. And will continue to do so.

It isn't even like Gaza is a great place for human beings to live. It is a desert with no water, shade or capacity to grow food. Eve without a war, 2 million people living there, most with no economic prospects, is a bad idea. Given the current state, it is quadruply bad.

Do you have any concept of how overpopulated Gaza is. Gaza is like 300 square km, where your island is 84,000. And your entire island barely has more than 2x as many people, and people have been leaving continuously for centuries for various reasons.
And Ireland is actually a place that has water and human beings can grow food. You cant even do that in Gaza.

Now that it's increasingly clear that the West is not going to do anything about the slaughter other than lip service, these freaks have become bold enough to take the mask off. Remember they spent a year and a half in this thread indignantly swearing up and down that there wasn't going to be any ethnic cleansing, everyone would be allowed back into their homes, Israel was only going to take a little bit of land as a buffer zone. Of course they knew they were lying through their teeth all the time.

The 2 state solution lives nowhere but in the Western imagination. I dont think Netanyahu was ever worried about a functional 2 state solution. But the idea he helped Hamas to weaken the PLO/PA, who he viewed as a greater danger at the time, is reasonable. And is completely consistent with how Israel and the US have operated in the ME for the last 50 years, for good or bad.

And at this point who cares if you are rewarding said strategy, if it is the right thing to do regardless. Sometimes bad guys win.

Qatar and Turkey aren't good guys. Everything that has happened in the last 2 years has been to their benefit to the cost of IRGC, who are also not good guys. There aren't really any good guys in the ME. So by definition, some bad guy is going to be rewarded every time there is a power shift.

No. I have been adamant the whole time the whole ethnic cleansing narrative is stupid, and inconsistent with how we have treated literally every other refugee situation. I understand when you are in the magic show, everything looks real. But the entire "ethnic cleansing" narrative is completely contrived and makes no sense.

And your faux moral outrage does nothing for me. As far as I am concerned, you dont have one drop of morality, or any real concern for brown kids 5,000 miles away. This is all an exercise to feed your narcissism and destructive ideology.

Anyways, another Israeli tech company is being bought for 25 billion USD. While American college kids clamor about divesting from Israel, the rest of the world goes on about business as usual.

https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/30/palo-alto-networks-agrees-to-buy-cyberark-for-25-billion/

TechCrunch

Palo Alto Networks agrees to buy CyberArk for $25 billion | TechCrunch

say the line Bart