Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
This is bizarre. Israel does't go out of its way to recruit for the military at all, because it has a conscription military. For political reasons it cant even conscript far right Jews. Conscripting Sunni Muslim Arabs is a giant political snake pit and complete non starter. And there is some voluntary service by far right Jews and non Jews (mainly Druze) and the govt and me
TheKghight seems to have a non-existent or at best surface level understanding of most of the topics at hand. It’s absurd to suggest that Jews should start converting Christians and Muslims and shows he has basically no understanding about the involved parties.
Coming into the thread and posting essays about what you just learned from Google AI is going to make you look like a dunce.
And there is some voluntary service by far right Jews and non Jews (mainly Druze) and the govt and media absolutely makes a deal out of this. Or I wouldn't know about it.
Druze are conscripted
Jal this is why you’re a ******ed poster. Anyone who just posts headlines as frequently as you do obviously doesn’t read. The article itself says that they will investigate the incidents no matter the source. Obviously the biggest anti-Israel propaganda outlets are going to overly report.
It shouldn’t be surprising that a bunch of the supposed incidents are BS. That the IDF investigates those incidents and has a method for punishment is a marvel in the Middle East. It makes them the most moral army in the Middle East (which isn’t saying much, granted).
According to the IDF: “Any report … complaint or allegation that suggests misconduct by IDF forces undergoes an initial examination process, irrespective of its source.” In some instances the evidence is such that a criminal investigation by military police is ordered, while in others an initial investigation takes place.
"under review"
How naive are you?
There's a genocide in progress with thousands of kids shot for fun, details of which have been posted here, and you disgusting PoS call it a moral army.
"under review"
How naive are you?
There's a genocide in progress with thousands of kids shot for fun, details of which have been posted here, and you disgusting PoS call it a moral army.
I didn’t call it a moral army, I called it the most moral army in the middle east. Can you name another army in the middle east that has a process for investigating criminal offenses and removing the offenders?
Fatah are not jihadists, they are the PA. You are dense.
None of your comments show that Rabin offered a state during Oslo.
What happened to the "just asking questions" shtick?
It looks as though you're in any old baloney will do territory. It's comments like yours that make idiocy look intellectual. There! See how easy it is to be abusive. It looks as though you have an axe to grind and all this is personal, and it's all MY fault. You need to see the bigger picture. Think "Islam", not "Palestine", since the latter is only a fiction to keep Israel fighting a bogus war against a bogus enemy.
I didn’t call it a moral army, I called it the most moral army in the middle east. Can you name another army in the middle east that has a process for investigating criminal offenses and removing the offenders?
No courts martial to date, nor the prospect of any. Just the propaganda claim of a vague 'inquiry' and a pre-emptive and prejudicial government claim that everything Ha'aretz says is false. The IDF's position will always be that, because their supposed rules prohibit deliberate attacks on civilians (which we all know they do all the time), therefore such things can never happen and did not happen.
No courts martial to date, nor the prospect of any. Just the propaganda claim of a vague 'inquiry' and a pre-emptive and prejudicial government claim that everything Ha'aretz says is false. The IDF's position will always be that, because their supposed rules prohibit deliberate attacks on civilians (which we all know they do all the time), therefore such things can never happen
One case resulted in a prison sentence for an Israeli soldier. An IDF reservist received a seven-month jail term in February after he was convicted by a military court of the aggravated abuse of Palestinian security detainees. He had repeatedly attacked bound and blindfolded prisoners with his fists, a baton and his assault rifle at the Sde Teiman detention centre.
Five other cases ended with violations found. In one, an IDF colonel and a major were sacked in April 2024 and three other commanders reprimanded a few days after seven aid workers from the World Central Kitchen were killed in an airstrike. The IDF said it was a “grave mistake stemming from a serious failure due to a mistaken identification”, though the charity said the rapid investigation lacked credibility.
…
The IDF said that “dozens of military police investigations have been opened” and that “most of these investigations are still ongoing”. The FFA mechanism, meanwhile, had “completed its review in dozens of cases” and these had transferred to the military advocate general for possible criminal investigation.
Everything you say is true as long as you don’t read and only look at headlines.
Does this make them perfect? Absolutely not. But that was never my claim or my burden to show.
No action beyond paper-shuffling for 18 months and no change in policy (because they admit no fault in policy). And I'm not sure how many other Middle Eastern armies have been engaged in an illegal occupation for nearly 60 years, as the IDF has in the West Bank, where it facilitates the intimidation and murder of Arabs by its paramilitary catspaws so that illegal settlers can seize their property (which again is national policy). And when they're not doing that, they're enforcing apartheid, with Arabs liable to summary execution for such crimes as using a Jews-only footpath.
No action beyond paper-shuffling for 18 months and no change in policy (because they admit no fault in policy). And I'm not sure how many other Middle Eastern armies have been engaged in an illegal occupation for nearly 60 years, as the IDF has in the West Bank, where it facilitates the intimidation and murder of Arabs by its paramilitary catspaws so that illegal settlers can s
I’m not going to move on to other points when you refuse to admit your mistake and instead shift the goalposts. You’re a dishonest actor.
Everything you say is true as long as you don’t read and only look at headlines.
Does this make them perfect? Absolutely not. But that was never my claim or my burden to show.
He’s just quoted from the same article I did that you said I hadn’t read which you clearly haven’t read yourself.
It’s fine to be partisan , but you should be able to recognise your biases and admit they may be skewing your interpretation of events, otherwise you’re not so much partisan as hopelessly brainwashed.
He’s just quoted from the same article I did that you said I hadn’t read which you clearly haven’t read yourself.
It’s fine to be partisan , but you should be able to recognise your biases and admit they may be skewing your interpretation of events, otherwise you’re not so much partisan as hopelessly brainwashed.
lol
My understanding is Jews dont prostelyze at all, and this is a very fundamental part of their religion that has existed for thousands of years.
This is why Israel is coming to a mega problem. As you point out, for whatever reason Judiasm has the quirk of being more of a club than an expansive organization like most religions (probably due to the ethnic component), so, given the limited manpower, they need a situation where large contingents outside the club support them. American Protestantism, with its apocalyptic/teleological outlook, its solidly pro-West values, and its tendency to literally interpret scripture, is perfect for this.
I haven't seen a good explanation for how something like this can be replaced (this is, after all, a huge reason that Israel gets unlimited ammo at the cost of the US taxpayer).
If the American Protestants decide that Israel has gone too far, who is going to be left?
We'll kill the monsters... All of Gaza will be Jewish... The government is racing to erase Gaza. Thank god, we're erasing this evil.
Amichay Eliyahu, Israel's Minister of Heritage, 2025.
This is why Israel is coming to a mega problem. As you point out, for whatever reason Judiasm has the quirk of being more of a club than an expansive organization like most religions (probably due to the ethnic component), so, given the limited manpower, they need a situation where large contingents outside the club support them. American Protestantism, with its apocalyptic/tel
Israel pays for 80% of arms it receives, and the other 20% the payment goes straight to American companies, and they deliver the arms to Israel.
In fact, Israel actually has rules where they aren't allowed to develop certain domestic industries or buy weapons sytems from other nations, to the benefit American arms manufacturers.
Additional benefits to US arms manufacturers, and ultimately the US military itself, is that Israel uses US hardware so manufacturers can evaluate performance in the field.
The far right and far left like to frame the relationship between Israel and US arms manufacturing as parasitic, but that does not represent reality at all. In fact, one could argue the US military industrial complex is the main beneficiary of the US military aid relationship with Israel.
The far right and far left like to frame the relationship between Israel and US arms manufacturing as parasitic, but that does not represent reality at all. In fact, one could argue the US military industrial complex is the main beneficiary of the US military aid relationship with Israel.
this is not the far lefts position. in fact, they would absolutely agree the US MIC benefits from the genocide. maybe you guys havent heard the phrase "for fun and profit".
TheKghight seems to have a non-existent or at best surface level understanding of most of the topics at hand. It’s absurd to suggest that Jews should start converting Christians and Muslims and shows he has basically no understanding about the involved parties. Coming into the thread and posting essays about what you just learned from Google AI is going to make you look like
You’re on the ignore list. Another rude and cowardly guy who indirectly responds to people and also post little to no context.
This is bizarre. Israel does't go out of its way to recruit for the military at all, because it has a conscription military. For political reasons it cant even conscript far right Jews. Conscripting Sunni Muslim Arabs is a giant political snake pit and complete non starter. And there is some voluntary service by far right Jews and non Jews (mainly Druze) and the govt and me
That you would seemingly shoot down merely the idea of the IDF also forcing conscription on the non-Jews or merely putting together a recruitment effort to recruit Christians and Muslims is infortunate. You see that’s what separates Israel from another country that would not have such a policy. Like the American military is basically a melting pot as are the armed forces of plenty of other countries.
Through history countries change as they grow. Very well may be time for Israel to change, especially if they want to pursue one unified state. One state one military and bring in interfaith marriage bring in a conscription that also drafts Muslim and Christian. No need to try and blow that off Or say it’s a political Hot piece. Gotta get past that. And that might not even be the solution but it’s simply an idea. Obviously if you have two separate states, it’s not really something that is probably doable. But that depends if you have one state or two states.
There have been a number of folks even in the modern times who have converted to Judaism. On some levels it actually makes total sense. Because Israel controls the water and resources into Gaza they control the airspace and Maritime activities of the Palestinian people, they are effectively by default responsible for them. And they should open up the gates to Israel for refugees from Gaza to be able to get free citizenship in Israel and free healthcare and free education, especially if their parents were killed by the IDF. In no way shape or form should the European countries or countries even in the neighborhood be responsible for Palestinians. It is Israel’s responsibility. Of course that is if the people of Gaza would want to go live in Israel.
I’ve read articles from Israel left and right wing newspapers. I’ve seen plenty of hard-core Jewish supremacist providing their views on various interviews. In person I have met a few soldiers from the IDF during my time in Asia.
Again wrt ww2 The overwhelming number of Arabs during World War II who fought in World War II did so for the Allied side. It is true there was some level of sympathy from some of the Arab nationalists to Nazism, but it hails in comparison to those who were sympathetic toward the Allied cause or who were neutral. And when you count the Indian Muslims, you’re talking about millions of Muslims who fought for the allied forces. So whatever you’re trying to say about some sort of a popular Arab of a movement toward Nazism, is misleading. Pan Arabism was about a nationalistic movement among Arabs, including even Arab Jews Especially prior to World War II. Similar to Zionism it seeks to uplift a group of people the Arab people doesn’t matter what their religion is. Like how Zionism seeks to bring together and uplift Jews of various backgrounds.
————It is said that 5.5 million Muslims participated on the allied side of the war during WWII. Nearly 1.5 million Muslims were killed in action.
By World War II, the British Indian Army had grown significantly to 2.5 million. Of this approximately 1 million were Muslims.
Muslims mainly from India and African countries fought on three continents and played a decisive role in Britain’s first major land victory against Nazi Germany in North Africa.
They also fought valiantly in Somalia, Abyssinia and Madagascar.
The greatest Muslim contribution, as part of the British Indian Army, was fighting the Japanese in the Far East Campaign.
9,000 – 12,000 Palestinians fought for Britain in WW2 in Egypt and Mesopotamia as did 1,500 soldiers from the Arab Legion (Jordan).”————-
But again, let’s get back to this idea of Judaism and attempting to convert people. You can see who the Jewish racist and supremacists are they are the ones who completely blow that off. I’m not saying you’re doing this, but there are those who would. Do you know what that looks like? It looks like basically they’re saying oh the idea of somebody joining Judaism that’s not allowed. They are from a different race. They’re like aliens. Again it’s merely an idea and it’s something that doesn’t have to happen, but simply put people who attempt to blow that off as something stupid are Jewish supremacists or they are just covering for those types of people, or they are uneducated and they don’t know how backward they sound
Really the point here is that all throughout history a country that is actually morally upright Will also try to win the hearts and minds of people. This was the case when the United States invaded Iraq. They were always saying that they were against Saddam Hussein not the Muslims or the Iraqi people. We don’t necessarily see this too much with the current Israeli government And their military operation in Gaza. On the surface level at the press conferences, they are not doing enough to say we’re trying to win over the hearts and minds of the people of Gaza like offer them a chance to become Israeli citizens maybe. And sure if a few Palestinians want to learn about Judaism and join Judaism let them. That’s how you build families and bring people together. It’s not really rocket science it’s actually called common sense. Although a dumb ass will try and blow it off. By the way, ancient Judaism did look for converts. So there you go.
Netanyahu should be saying Let’s put our own money and resources that is to say the money of Israel taxpayers into rebuilding Gaza. Not from some foreign fund or from America.
Your points about Israel being the most free or democratic country in the Middle East no longer holds any weight. It was a much stronger argument five years ago. But now as we have seen as everybody knows press freedom is severely curtailed in Israel. They don’t even allow foreign journalist into Gaza. it’s kind of funny by the way when people say you know in Israel, LGBT people have so many rice and people who support gays for god are just stupid. A lot of those people who say that either have no idea or don’t care that in fact Israel, military officials have blackmailed gay Palestinians to give intel to Israel or basically faith death. So much for LGBT rights what a joke.
And again we can go back to what Christian conservative military personnel from the United States some of whom have been on the ground in Gaza, who know Israeli military officers who have either witnessed the IDF commit heinous war crimes.
Or who have had Israeli officers tell them about these war crimes by the Israelis…. Of course, image matters and the current government in Israel are responsible for the terrible image that Israel has in the world today. How they are choosing to conduct their warfare their own policies internally it’s their fault. Just like the American military personnel who have either served in Gaza as independent contractors or who know Israeli officers are saying they haven’t seen anything like this in Iraq or Afghanistan like they have in Gaza. The war crimes committed by the IDF, their whole attitude toward food distribution in Gaza is evil. It’s like nothing we have seen in Iraq or Afghanistan when America occupied those countries.
It looks as though you're in any old baloney will do territory. It's comments like yours that make idiocy look intellectual. There! See how easy it is to be abusive. It looks as though you have an axe to grind and all this is personal, and it's all MY fault. You need to see the bigger picture. Think "Islam", not "Palestine", since the latter is only a fiction to keep Isra
All religious groups have good and bad people all throughout history. In the early 20th century, you had the problem of Al-Qaeda and more recently with ISIL. But it is interesting that here in 2025 There are actually more than a few conservative Christian Trump supporters who are taking interest in places like Saudi Arabia. The gulf countries which totally reject wokeism but also are home to the wealthiest societies in the world. There’s tons of Christian Americans who directly do business With the GCC countries some of them even work in those countries and prosper tremendously. Because of the Abraham accords pushed by Donald Trump ….There’s also been quite a few Jews from Israel who have gone on vacation to some of the GCC countries. Again, that is a point that pro Netanyahu people should be talking about. But some of them they go on these diatribes against Islam. They’re totally lost and they are making arguments that are like 20 years old.
By the way the safest country in 2025 for solo women to travel is Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has had a lot of reforms recently and look at how they welcomed Donald Trump this year. It is so interesting to see masculine Trump supporters recognizing the benefits of a place like Saudi Arabia. Look at all of the radical feminism and woke trash in the west we have. To be fair in the west we have pushed back against cancel cultural a little bit, but there’s still work to be done there.
lol I love how some people not you but I’m just saying in this conversation that a lot of folks are engaging in decades old misconceptions about places like Saudi Arabia or the UAE. It is so laughable let them keep saying it. It doesn’t matter. These are countries that are safe you could leave a Rolex in a mall bench in Saudi Arabia. Nobody’s gonna steal it. Lol!!!!! “Oh but don’t you know how bad those countries are?” Try walking down any street in Chicago or Baltimore with a Rolex on. Or Las Vegas.
“Their still living in the Stone Age”
Lolz
Yes, there are some issues with regards to how workers from the Third World countries are treated in the GCC countries. That is the fault of Third World countries. Those workers go to the GCC countries where they make a lot more money. They have similar issues in Israel, where black Jews from Ethiopia have been reportedly mistreated. Doesn’t paint the whole picture though. Still plenty of problems and challenges, and Muslim majority countries… but there is probably a ton of things that even you might not be aware of when it comes to these extraordinary reforms in Saudi Arabia. Huge numbers of women in Saudi Arabia are now working as doctors or lawyers.
I voted for Trump in 2024. He gets along great with Saudi Arabia. I know there are probably in this thread Some people who voted for Trump and support Israel and they shoot themselves in the foot when they try and insult the Muslim countries. They also have a totally warped view of this conflict. People are not criticizing Israel because they’re against Jews. But more often than that, I see people who are supporting Israel, but also heavenly critical of Islam sometimes even Christianity. That puts them in a different level of evil and tolerance. Willingly blowing off the fact that there’s tons of Muslims, who are totally cool people.
Btw there are some critics of Israel who are anti semitic ….ie the Nazis who don’t like Israel. They are a minority of the anti-Israel folks. It is the actions of one government the Netanyahu gov that drives criticism of Israel.. otoh There’s 50 Muslim majority countries some of them are very backwards, but some of them are not.
Saudi Arabia also gave Intel to Israel to help them fight Iran ….pro-Israel people should use that and talk about that instead of this really old tired nonsense of spreading the lie that “Israel is surrounded by enemies” no they are not. Perhaps they were 75 years ago. The entire world was a different place then. If Israel is surrounded by enemies today, Jordan and Egypt would be launching attacks into Tel Aviv….of course they are not.
