Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Seeing as the far left like yourself are now openly supporting terrorist groups as freedom fighters, there's really not much incentive to listen to you guys police language anymore. Any amount of bad language could never match up to the depravity of your beliefs.
But again just because I recognize someone is homeless, crazy, and in bad circumstances, doesn't mean I want something bad to happen to them. I would be very happy to see Victor come around on thinking killing random Israelis is bad or that Ukrainians don't deserve to have their country invaded by Russia, just as I would be happy to see the homeless person get the help they need.
Lying by omission about what's actually going on is actually an affront to all of our humanity because we have to pretend things that are improper are actually proper.
You trying to portray this post
I’m sure the schizophrenic homeless person who shits themselves on the street while screaming about the illuminati gets more women looking at him than me too.
as showing compassion and humanity for the homeless is sickening and you are one evil hypocritical mf.
After all this time, given Israel's overwhelming military advantage, that can only be because the Israelis have preferred a campaign of loose mass-destructive 'collective punishment' to a proper block-by-block counter-insurgency campaign on the ground. Which is perhaps partly because they can't be bothered and don't want the casualties, and partly because the Israeli cabinet is dominated, as we know, by crazyheads who just want to kill as many Palestinians as possible.
I would be very happy to see Victor come around on thinking killing random Israelis is bad or that Ukrainians don't deserve to have their country invaded by Russia
liars lie.
The Israeli general who headed military intelligence on 7 October 2023 has said 50 Palestinians must die for every person killed that day and “it does not matter now if they are children”, in recordings broadcast by Israel’s Channel 12 TV station.
Aharon Haliva said the toll in Gaza, which he put at more than 50,000 dead, was “necessary” as a “message to future generations” of Palestinians.
“They need a Nakba every now and then to feel the price,” he added, referring to the mass expulsion of more than 700,000 Palestinians from their homes and lands after the creation of Israel in 1948. Nakba means catastrophe in Arabic.
Much of Israel’s leadership and media has used genocidal rhetoric about Palestinians since Hamas’s 7 October attacks, including describing them as “human animals”, saying there are “no innocents” in Gaza and calling for Gaza’s total destruction and its ethnic cleansing.
However, Haliva’s description of a campaign of mass killing including children was an unusually direct description of collective punishment of civilians, which is illegal under international law.
You trying to portray this post
as showing compassion and humanity for the homeless is sickening and you are one evil hypocritical mf.
Did you know that if you called people the homeless, some people would say you are being insensitive?
But of course progressives could never acknowledge that as far as they take language policing, there’s always someone there to take it even further.
We all know that the situation I’m describing happens. So why are you pretending it doesn’t and that there’s something “evil” in describing something that happens every day in our major cities? Because you need to do that in order to maintain your self-image as a fighter of oppression. Which it’s hard to imagine how me using an analogy of something that happens every day is “evil”.
Just as this person would call you insensitive for saying “the homeless”. If we don’t have our own personal cutoff point, we’ll always be sucked into this pointless game of always moving into more and more euphemistic language.
The games that far leftists play with language extend further than just this, as we see time and time again with “white empire” being used to describe the most free and racially equal states of all time, to the point where if we don’t accept that genocidal terrorists like Hamas that use their own people as human shields are freedom fighters we’re called genocide deniers. And if we support Palestinian statehood but don’t want to dismantle Israel and don’t accept propaganda straight from Hamas ministries as gospel we are also denying genocide.
I reject that I have to accept everything that is said by you and your ilk as good and proper simply on your say-so.
Actually he does represent a branch of the online populist right that are tremendously "passionate" on this topic to the point they talk about little else. They are generally pro Russia, pro Iran, have nothing bad to say about Islam or the Muslim world. And hyper critical of the nation of Israel, all things "Zionist," and the majority of American Jews who are not vocally anti
Instead of telling people what influences them and what not …just ask. I do the same thing with you.
That’s why I ask what your opinion is on Islam. I have a positive opinion of Judaism.
As for Iran I oppose their current government. And prefer the shah
lol I love this ,
“Although they will assure you they are not antisemetic”
Right up there with the low context trolls itt with their one liner posts and hit and run insults….your better then that.
I suspect in the real world they represent a much smaller % of the American populace than would appear on the surface; and A LOT of them are bots or paid actors residing in places like Pakistan, Russia and China.
You sound a lot like a far left winger accusing everyone you disagree with as some kind of a paid Russian bot….
“Looked at by age, young Republicans aged 18-49 have shifted from 35% having an unfavorable view of Israel to 50% unfavorable”
“32% in U.S. Back Israel's Military Action in Gaza, a New Low”
Ben Shapiro is not the equivalent of Nick Fuentes. Nick is a proud antisemite and all around white supremacist. He criticizes people like Tucker and Candace for using the term Zionist instead of Jew in their slander. Today he went on a rant about JD Vance saying he was unfit to lead because he married a Jeet (this is the term Nick used) and his kids are brown (I am not exagg
To bad for you.. do you think that Fuentes should be silenced or something? I don’t agree with the guy on everything. But he is certainly in the same category as Ben Shapiro who is on record saying most Muslims are radicals. Now that said putting aside the controversial views of Fuentes and Shapiro, both of them have said things that most common sense people would agree with.
See I’m not in the business of shutting people down that is a left-wing cancel culture tactic and it’s also now a part of the woke right wing. Just hear somebody out dissect their views point by point and there you go. Unfortunately in this thread there’s some pro Israel folk who are either not knowledgeable and or completely incapable of actually having a conversation. So they resort to the one liner troll posts, personal attacks and such.
I’m glad Truthful people like Tucker Carlson are crushing those like Ben Shapiro when it comes to number of followers. Tucker also respects Jewish people where Ben Shapiro has said most Muslims are radical. This is such a blatantly obvious difference here in terms of tolerance.
When it comes to views on social media. Heck you could even look at some of the comments section of Ben Shapiro videos. The guy is getting criticized by people who used to support him because of how insane he is when it comes to supporting Israel, no matter what. Of course he is now embracing left-wing culture calling anyone who dares to criticize him as a racist. It’s pathetic.
I’m going to ask you now for a third time. What is your opinion on Islam. I’m not looking for a gotcha moment if you have a negative opinion that’s your right. Please provide the answer.
Most of the Africa red in that map is the Muslim part of Africa. And I never said Muslim countries were singularly liberally backwards. There are plenty of other liberally backwards places in the world. Knight said Islam and Muslims were being unfairly criticized in this thread. I merely asked him to provide what he felt to be a fair explanation for the consistent patterns
Now your trolling…i responded to you earlier with a link showing one of the posters in the thread criticizing Islam. Which again is his right I’m not gonna whine about it. I’m simply showcasing What is going on in the conversation…. That includes people who are criticizing Israeli policy being accused of being anti-semitic by the trolls. Like somebody brought up Israeli soldiers saying October 7 was allowed to occur by the Israeli government. One of the next posts was a one line troll saying “oh you must believe in Jewish space lasers”. . Oh well to be fair there are pro Israel people who argue in good faith.
These conversations on this thread are interesting but no matter what anyone thinks there is clearly a huge divide in the Republican Party when it comes to supporting Israel. The party that used to be the basis of support for Neo conservatism and supporting Israel’s wars is totally different now. You saw the polls, we all know it from following media trends …many young Republicans and young evangelicals are disgusted by Israel’s war in Gaza.
Perhaps it’s the positive aspect of social media of how we can see in front of our eyes The genocide in Gaza. We didn’t have that 20 years ago.
And as long as they stay on topic (Israel/Jews evil) the far left doesn't even push back against them. There is a far right winger in here trying to promote the most extreme right wing racists in American discourse. And none of the leftists are pushing back a tiny bit as long as he stays on topic criticizing Israel/Jews. And it would never occur to any of them the reason the
Yes Ben Shapiro is a bigot. Tucker Carlson is not. Tucker has been on record numerous times saying he likes Israel. He likes Jewish people. And you don’t care about it. You’re simply engaging in cancel culture tactics. There’s no evidence to back up what you’re saying.
What world are you possibly living in. Tucker Carlson has over 25 million followers on Twitter, YouTube and instagram. You simply want something to be true like claiming that he is on the fringe the man when he was on Fox News was the most watched news program in the USA. You’re just trolling at this point. Sad to see oh well.
Most extreme right wing - oh yea that’s Ben Shapiro.
I push back on Knight all the time. the people he promotes like Tucker and Candice are just grifters. the right wing opposition to Israel is based on the misguided idea that Israel is bad for the USA.
Victor you have really misguided views and use these weird terms like “white empire” to describe the Roman empire when it in fact had African and Arab emperors. Some of the greatest history of Rome can be found in modern day North Africa and in Syria for example.
I am a traditional Democrat and influenced by the like of FDR and John F. Kennedy. Im certainly in opposition to radical leftism ie wokeism which is in large part why Democrats got swept in the 2024 election. It’s a disaster. The tactics they use are interestingly enough often the exact same types of tactics that extremist supporters of Israel will use, which is to tell people what they think, to make up the view that somebody is a Iranian or Russian agent , to call somebody a racist with no evidence. It’s garbage tactics and most Americans reject that stuff.
Personally, I get my information from both the left and the right and on my own. From the left the likes of the young Turks and from the right the likes of Tucker Carlson. It’s interesting that the young Turks are now agreeing with Tucker Carlson and vice versa on some things. I also like Glenn Greenwald quite a bit. Dave Smith to and I will watch CNN and Fox News occasionally just to see what those folks are saying. And there’s plenty more political channels I am subscribed to on YouTube people like Piers Morgan, the fresh and fit channel, MyronGainesX, just to see what different types of people are saying about the issues.
the Roman Empire was the predecessor to the British and current American White Empires. I am more talking about these 2 (and the Nazis ofc). I cant remember whatever terminology or phrase I used that made you focus so much on the Romans but whatever I retract it. and the USA had a black president. doesnt matter, its still the White Empire.
I am against wokeism too. its a cudgel used by the liberal elites to maintain power and avoid even attempting to implement material change.
the Roman Empire was the predecessor to the British and current American White Empires. I am more talking about these 2 (and the Nazis ofc). I cant remember whatever terminology or phrase I used that made you focus so much on the Romans but whatever I retract it. and the USA had a black president. doesnt matter, its still the White Empire.I am against wokeism too. it’
I remember you criticizing the Roman Empire, but that is fine. Thank you.
If we go back 100 years, we can find for example there was slavery in Ethiopia… while we had things like forced segregation and Jim Crow in the USA.
In the modern times There is blatantly obvious differences between how the United States conducts itself compared to Israel. The biggest one of all is in Israel, a mandatory draft service for Jews. While in the US military, we have people from all walks of life. A military made up of a melting pot of cultures.
Ultimately in my view and this is something some people in Palestine and Israel agree with… they need to have a one state solution there. Anything else has the potential to lead to further military conflicts and bickering. We have this bizarre situation where Israel is the overlord to Gaza and the West Bank. As we can clearly see now Israel controls the airspace and maritime trade of Gaza. Could you imagine for a moment if Say New York controlled the supplies to Pennsylvania. If you had a situation where California blockaded Nevada as Israel is doing to Gaza. There’s also blatantly better conditions for Israeli settlers compared to Palestinians like when it comes to medical access, the ability to carry a gun, access to roads for example.
Where we might differ is I still believe
most Jews in Israel are good hearted people. This is what separates me along with so many people who are critical of Israel policy from some of the pro Israel folk in this thread …. Who are constantly making statements akin to criticizing “the Muslim world.”
just as the zillionth example of rabid, perversive, inexcusable antisemitism... a palestinian woman was flown into italy to be cured.She died soon after reaching italy.All leftist sources (in italy and elsewhere) titled "palestinian died of malnutrition in Italy". She had advanced, severe leukemia.That's it basically. That's how it goes for every single piece of "information" a
Well, this is a tactic of the Hasbara and the IDF that are trying to brainwash you. So sure you’re gonna have errors in reporting on individual stories like on how individual people die in Palestine… is it due to malnutrition or is it due to something else, perhaps a combination of both etc
Still The low estimates of the deaths in Gaza are 50,000 but the high estimates are as much as a few hundred thousand. And yes, there is a food crisis in Gaza that is so blatantly obvious to anyone who is following the situation.
.
So your thesis is that there is generally no link between nations where the govt and/or a majority of people believe one should live ones life according to a book written in the 7th century promoting 7th century morality; and those nations actually demonstrating 7th century moral norms? And China, Russia and Venezuela having some similar backwards norms is the evidence you off
Ok you do know that most Muslims are peaceful, loving people following a seventh century religion. Now, how would you react if somebody said that “wow people who follow the Jewish faith are following a barbaric ancient religion”. Like what world are you living in.?
You know that many honorable Jewish people live their life according to the values of the Torah. Just like many Muslims do with the Quran. Wrt text that we might find controversial for the modern times from both the Quran and the Torah. …Well many Jews and Muslims say those were meant for their specific time. Not the modern era. Of course people like you probably don’t bring that up, right?
For every criticism and negative point that you think you have on the Islamic religion, you better believe that antisemites do the exact same thing with the Torah. And the anti-Muslims like the anti-Jews simply do not care or listen to what so many Muslim and Jewish scholars have to say with regards to their view that Islam and Judaism can live in the modern era as It’s clearly doing that all over the world. Oh but your type just likes to only talk about the bad huh?
@Dunyain and Luciom
How do you defend Israel blowing little girls carrying water into the stratosphere?
Islam has plenty of problems but one thing has become undeniable. The world would be an infinitely better place without Israel.
Instead of telling people what influences them and what not …just ask. I do the same thing with you.
That’s why I ask what your opinion is on Islam. I have a positive opinion of Judaism.
Why do you have a high opinion of Judaism? Have you read the Talmud and agree with its overall message how to live ones life?
I think historical Islam, Judaism and Christianity represent sucky zero sum intolerance and tribalism that is incompatible with liberal values. Christianity seems the least intolerant in principle, but in practice seemed to be the most intolerant historically.
And the best thing about the Christian and Jewish world are that they dont actually try to practice ancient Judaism and Chistianity. And the people that are trying to do this, eg. West Bank settlers, suck.
And the biggest problem with Islam is that too many people and govts in the world today think it is a good idea to live their life according to its teachings vis-a-vis the 7th century morality.
And if there were 2 billion Jews in the world, and some high % of them looked to the Talmud for literal guidance how to live their lives politically and socially, as opposed to just spiritually, the results would probably be worse than the Muslim world today.
Curious why you sometime choose to put a link and sometime a cropped pic with no link?
I'm not sure what your goal is so it might be intentionnal.
Maybe you even think it strengten your goal, who knows.
@Dunyain and Luciom
How do you defend Israel blowing little girls carrying water into the stratosphere?
Islam has plenty of problems but one thing has become undeniable. The world would be an infinitely better place without Israel.
I dont defend Israel. But I also dont get selectively outraged when it confirms my ideological biases like you do. Girls are dying all over the world, and you only care in this instance for ulterior motives, and are willing to believe any obviously fake story that confirms your biases.
As to your last point, the world has Israel, so it should be doing a better, more honest, job making Israel work IMO.
There are lots of inflection points in time where we can argue the world would be a better place if x,y,z didn't happen. It can be an interesting academic exercise to do this, but there is no practical application in doing so.
Curious why you sometime choose to put a link and sometime a cropped pic with no link?
I'm not sure what your goal is so it might be intentionnal.
Maybe you even think it strengten your goal, who knows.
Do you think it's fake? Do you know how to use Google?
I dont defend Israel. But I also dont get selectively outraged when it confirms my ideological biases like you do. Girls are dying all over the world, and you only care in this instance, and are willing to believe any obviously fake story that confirms your biases. As to your last point, the world has Israel, so it should be doing a better, more honest, job making Israel wor
Is this your go-to response? ''You care only when it's Israel killing someone therefore your point is invalid''.
Anyways, so the video is fake? Is that what you're concluding?
As to your last point, the world has Israel, so it should be doing a better, more honest, job making Israel work IMO.
Disagree. It's a money sink that is killing 7 year old girls carrying water with OUR tax money.
Is this your go-to response? ''You care only when it's Israel killing someone therefore your point is invalid''.
Anyways, so the video is fake? Is that what you're concluding?
Disagree. It's a money sink that is killing 7 year old girls carrying water with OUR tax money.
I dont know what specific video you are claiming. But I have seen hundreds/thousands of videos, where the video almost never corroborates the accusations and outrage it generates. And in the extremely rare cases it does, the outrage is still mostly bad faith representation of what happened.
It doesn't seem like most people generally outraged actually want peaceful co-existence, at least not in any way that addresses reality. It seems like most people just wish the Palestinians did better in their forever war against Israel, to assuage their own ideological preferences.
As far as your last sentence. We are a democracy. I dont agree with your perception, but if you feel that strongly and it is that important to you, just vote for whatever candidate is the most hostile towards Israel. If you feel even this is not enough, you can join the Houthis or IRGC and do your part to destroy Israel, as some Westerners have done.
