Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
It’s incredible that the pro war in gaza people constantly bring up October 7.
It happens over and over. Regardless of the fact that Israeli soldiers are testifying that their government allowed the attack to happen. People on the left and right and any reasonable person questions how it happened in the most monitored area of the world. And of course allegations by people including Ron Paul, that Israel funded Hamas in its early stages.
Plus there was a conflict going on right before October 7 which saw in a one year period alone dozens of Palestinian kids killed by the IDF.
It’s either one of two things. The Israeli government and that can include perhaps rogue officials in the government allowed October 7 to happen. Or it was a catastrophic failure of intelligence to the point of where you are basically have to have a scenario akin to people monitoring the situation being hung over or drunk at the same time and not watching all of these people approach the border with military equipment.
Gaza is 44 miles away from Tel Aviv. A country like Israel, capable of killing political opponents, thousands of miles away with precision strikes at Will….
Ahhhh but
“Oh you must believe in Jewish space lasers”!
no, it was planned by the heroic Palestinian resistance who were able to outsmart the Jewish Supremacists despite multiple orders of magnitude less resources. its gotta sting that the Untermensch were able to achieve such a victory. probably why you guys lash out and murder children at a rate never seen in modern history.
This is indeed a brilliant victory for them. They do not regret the great victory at all.
I am glad you have appointed yourself as the spokesperson for the Palestinians. I am sure they appreciate it very much.
There is a level of evil and darkness to the IDF and the Israeli government and their deranged supporters in America, which thank God it’s quite minimal. The majority of the American people oppose the Netanyahu government …and I do believe most Jews in America and Israel want change for the better.
Don't worry, Israel are great at investigating and turning over criminals.
It's not like their Prime Minister faces domestic charges of corruption, and also would be arrested if he travelled to any of the 124 countries who are member of the ICC because he's being investigated for war crimes 🙄
There’s no point in coming at me if you’re mostly uninformed.
What exactly are you informing me of here? I know the leaders are dead. I’m challenging your idea of “systematically”not the fact they can kill people. They’ve shown us they can do that. Tens of thousands of dead women and children.
Your bragging about how advanced of an army they are is betrayed by the fact they’ve had to turn all of Gaza into rubble and still haven’t gotten rid of Hamas.
Keeping googling though. You might eventually reach the level of “educated” you believe you’re at right now.
I’m sure you have an answer already and don’t need me. I’m just educating the uneducated.
Funny how the “educated” have no answer here. Why is Israel still killing children and women? They’re so advanced and all the leaders are dead. You just told us.
I saw the video with the girl fetching water. You can slow the video down completely and you never see anything falling, say from a drone. And the blast damage was inconsistent with something falling from the sky and WAY too small for most Israeli bombs. Based on the video evidence looks like she stepped on an IED or pipe bomb on ground. So looks like a Palestinian girl tri
First it was fake now it’s staged and Dunyain is apparently also an Israeli bomb expert. Good to know.
why do you guys keep saying women as if it was different? are you against gender equality? are women not materially supporting the terroristic effort preparing food for terrorists, doing logistics, tending their wounds? everyone doing anything to help terrorists is an enemy combatant and a fair target.
Why do you always pretend like the demographic pyramid isn't exceptional in Gaza? half the population is under 18, so half of the civilian casualties caused by hamas choosing to hide fighters and weapons within the population are going to be under 18 people.
Why do you deny that every single palestinian killed by Israel defending itself is exclusively dead because of Hamas? if Hamas unilaterally surrenders completly no civilian dies anymore. If hamas leaves all inhabited areas, no civilian dies anymore.
Every time a civilian die, he dies because of Hamas. It's horrific beyond comprehension to blame the people who rightfully do anything in their power to try to kill as many hamas people as possible (a moral endevour we should support in full) if civilians , used by hamas as shields, die.
You never negotiate with terrorists nor pay them blackmail. If all a terrorist needs to do to be safe is to have civilian shields, you are basically condoning terrorism worldwide. You can't kill any terrorist if that becomes the rule, they just always keep civilians nearby and you are powerless.
So, the only moral thing to do is to completly disregard civilian deaths, consider them part of the deaths of terror, and do anything in your power to keep killing terrorists
why do you guys keep saying women as if it was different? are you against gender equality? are women not materially supporting the terroristic effort preparing food for terrorists, doing logistics, tending their wounds? everyone doing anything to help terrorists is an enemy combatant and a fair target.Why do you always pretend like the demographic pyramid isn't exceptional in G
This is something someone would say who has exactly 0 morals. We're 22 months into this war, only someone who is morally corrupt like you would still believe the quoted garbage.
“Senior Israeli official flees US after pedophilia arrest, sparking debate over Israeli impunity“
Is this what Las Vegas (or other jurisdictions) normally do for this kind of case? According to the Guardian article he was released on bond and is awaiting a court date, which is probably going to be in weeks/months. Is it normal protocol for foreigners to have their passports seized and then have to wait weeks/months in the US for their court date on this type of charge?
It seems most of the moral outrage is only because he is Israeli, and none of us have the slightest clue whether this was handled abnormally or not. The fact The Guardian never says anything about this being abnormal indicates it probably isn't. And the article says nothing about him having American citizenship, so the article you posted about Jewish Americans hiding in Israel is not relevant at all.
I remember a few years back there was a big news story about an American govt worker working in Britain who killed a British boy in a car accident, and then while waiting for the court date fled to the US and Britain just let it go. Every couple years you hear a story about a foreign national, normally a Saudi, involved in some serious crime like rape, murder, etc. who just flees home.
I have no clue whether this guy will come back for his court date. But if he doesn't, I suspect that is just how our justice system works and there is nothing abnormal about this. The Guardian article says he is currently "on leave," so maybe the LV prosecutor (or whoever) and Israeli govt worked out some deal where he would be quietly punished in Israel, and the Israeli govt is following through on it. And that is how these things are normally handled. I really have no clue, and I doubt you do either. And most of the outrage is due to ulterior motives.
First it was fake now it’s staged and Dunyain is apparently also an Israeli bomb expert. Good to know.
When you first brought this up, I had no clue at all what you were even referring to. I dont follow Arab language pro Hamas propaganda, who seem to be the only ones pushing this story. I had to actively search to even see what you were talking about. But it looks like (once again) my assumption it was probably bad faith propaganda, was correct.
Lets be honest. The setup looks exactly like one of those red triangle videos Hamas posts all the time, except it was a Palestinian girl and not an IDF soldier or vehicle that tripped the IED.
Why do you think BBC, Sky News, etc. that normally treat this kind of stuff like catnip isn't touching this?
What is your putative absolute, unchanging, knowable and universal standard of 'morality' (i.e. righteousness)?
Maybe we can answer this with an example.
Is it right or wrong to shoot at and kill Palestinian women and children who are in line at aid trucks?
Luciom thinks it's right. Morally acceptable because Hamas started this war and still has hostages. If anything the IDF is engaging in a moral endeavor we should support in full until Hamas surrenders unconditionally. Luciom believes that even in this scenario the deaths of these women and children are exclusively the fault of Hamas and the only moral thing to do is to completely disregard civilian deaths, consider them part of the deaths of terror, and do anything in your power to keep killing terrorists
I think Luciom is morally corrupt.
Maybe we can answer this with an example.
Is it right or wrong to shoot at and kill Palestinian women and children who are in line at aid trucks?
Is it right or wrong to genocide an entire people, kill all the men, take the women as slave concubines, and enslave all the children? For not even really doing anything.
Should someone who is credited with doing this be regarded as the most perfect man who ever lived? What would you say about the morality of a culture where this is exactly the case?
Are all members of such a culture morally corrupt?
Morality, especially moral outrage of the kind you peddle in, is a very tricky business. And first principles generally seem to play little part, and ulterior motives (especially lizard brain tribalism) a much greater share. And you dont appear to be any exception to this rule.
Is this what Las Vegas (or other jurisdictions) normally do for this kind of case? According to the Guardian article he was released on bond and is awaiting a court date, which is probably going to be in weeks/months. Is it normal protocol for foreigners to have their passports seized and then have to wait weeks/months in the US for their court date on this type of charge?It
Have another cup of copium.
When you first brought this up, I had no clue at all what you were even referring to. I dont follow Arab language pro Hamas propaganda, who seem to be the only ones pushing this story. I had to actively search to even see what you were talking about. But it looks like (once again) my assumption it was probably bad faith propaganda, was correct. Lets be honest. The setup lo
Exactly. Just happy to know you're an Israeli bomb expert. Next time a 7 year old is blown into 1000 pieces I'll ask you first if this was an Israeli bomb or not. Deal?
Is it right or wrong to genocide an entire people, kill all the men, take the women as slave concubines, and enslave all the children? For not even really doing anything. Should someone who is credited with doing this be regarded as the most perfect man who ever lived? What would you say about the morality of a culture where this is exactly the case?Are all members of such a
Wrong.
See, not that hard.
Exactly. Just happy to know you're an Israeli bomb expert. Next time a 7 year old is blown into 1000 pieces I'll ask you first if this was an Israeli bomb or not. Deal?
Not an Israeli bomb expert. But even if you aren't able to make any deductions from the video itself, when even BBC and Sky News aren't touching a story like this, some warning bells should be going off.
So would believing someone who is credited with such actions to be the perfect man make one morally corrupt? Or does context make the matter more gray than this?
Are you asking me if Victor is morally corrupt for thinking Hamas leaders are freedom fighters/doing the right thing? The answer is obviously yes. Victor is just as insane as Luciom is.
Are you asking me if Victor is morally corrupt for thinking Hamas leaders are freedom fighters/doing the right thing? The answer is obviously yes. Victor is just as insane as Luciom is.
Well, that wasn't what I was asking. But if you are actually making an effort to be morally consistent with your moral outrage, then I applaud the effort.
Well, that wasn't what I was asking. But if you are actually making an effort to be morally consistent with your moral outrage, then I applaud the effort.
I'm not a fan of either extreme. Didn't realize this was so controversial but killing people is bad. It's bad when it's done in the name of Islam and it's bad when it's done under the disguise of some ''moral duty'' war that is still going on 22 months later where women and children are being shot whilst in line for aid.
When you first brought this up, I had no clue at all what you were even referring to. I dont follow Arab language pro Hamas propaganda, who seem to be the only ones pushing this story. I had to actively search to even see what you were talking about. But it looks like (once again) my assumption it was probably bad faith propaganda, was correct. Lets be honest. The setup lo
I couldn’t even find the video on AJ’s Middle East page. I had to google “girl carrying water killed Gaza” to find a link to it. It seems even AJ has decided not to run with the story.
I'm not a fan of either extreme. Didn't realize this was so controversial but killing people is bad. It's bad when it's done in the name of Islam and it's bad when it's done under the disguise of some ''moral duty'' war that is still going on 22 months later where women and children are being shot whilst in line for aid.
Not necessarily, no. Killing enemies is actually good and better than letting them live.
What exactly are you informing me of here? I know the leaders are dead. I’m challenging your idea of “systematically”not the fact they can kill people. They’ve shown us they can do that. Tens of thousands of dead women and children. Your bragging about how advanced of an army they are is betrayed by the fact they’ve had to turn all of Gaza into rubble and still haven’t gotten r
You seem to think Israel has eliminated Hamas commanders through indiscriminate bombing. If you’ve paid any attention to actual events, you wouldn’t be making this ridiculous statement.
If you think I have any interest in engaging Victor then you really haven’t been paying any attention.
I couldn’t even find the video on AJ’s Middle East page. I had to google “girl carrying water killed Gaza” to find a link to it. It seems even AJ has decided not to run with the story.
Too many disgusting stories to report on. They're already working overtime it seems.
You seem to think Israel has eliminated Hamas commanders through indiscriminate bombing. If you’ve paid any attention to actual events, you wouldn’t be making this ridiculous statement.
If you think I have any interest in engaging Victor then you really haven’t been paying any attention.
All of Gaza is rubble. It's the only conclusion to make. It's far too un-methodical for an army THAT advanced. I'd bring up the innocent civilians death toll but cba reading about John Spencer and his ratios again.
I remember a few years back there was a big news story about an American govt worker working in Britain who killed a British boy in a car accident, and then while waiting for the court date fled to the US and Britain just let it go.
I wouldn't say that exactly. She was charged in absentia with causing death by careless driving ('driving on the American side of the road,' as she put it), pleaded guilty by video link at the Old Bailey and was sentenced to eight months suspended for one year. The US will no longer claim immunity in the UK for family members of diplomatic staff (she was the wife of an intelligence officer), which was the loophole that allowed her to skip the country.
