British Politics
Been on holiday for a few weeks, surprised to find no general discussion of British politics so though I'd kick one off.
I post about Luciom far more but to his credit he doesn’t go running off to his mod mummy and daddy to protect him from criticism when he posts something bad, so they don’t notice the posts.
you greatly reduced the one-line insults toward me, you actually make political claims that can be discussed (usually disagreeing with me on claims i made) and that's what a politics forum should be about, why would i report that?
They're just getting told off for late reporting. Peter Prinsley was hardly covering up the visit, since he posted this on his website when he got back:-
The appalling suffering of the people of Gaza is intolerable, unjustifiable and must end. An immediate ceasefire must be reached, humanitarian aid must be permitted to enter Gaza unhindered and urgently and illegal settlements must be dismantled. The hostages must be released and there must be negotiation towards a political settlement and the reconstruction of Gaza.
An election will take place in Israel next year, and every poll since 7 October points to Netanyahu and his right-wing coalition being ejected from office which presents an opportunity for those who seek peace in the Middle East to influence in whatever way we can what we hope is a new government in waiting.
I was recently part of a parliamentary delegation to Israel and the Occupied Territories. We met political leaders on both sides including the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah and politicians of all parties at the Knesset. The hostages have now been held for more than 600 days and there has been intolerable destruction in Gaza with tens of thousands of dead. I returned determined to do whatever I can for this conflict to end, for Netanyahu’s government to be removed from power and for a diplomatic solution resulting in safe, secure and separate States of Israel and Palestine.
https://www.peterprinsley.org/news/israe...
Last year Cat Eccles posted in support of a ceasefire and suspension of arms exports to Israel:--
https://www.cat4stour.co.uk/faqs-1/proje...
The Israel / Occupied Territories trip was due to be reported in the last week of June and Eccles' office only reported on 9 July. They say it was an admin error, which there's no particular reason to doubt. (Incidentally, MPs who try visiting Israel and the Territories without the blessing of LFI or CFI not unsurprisingly tend to get hassled or even refused entry.)
I am from the outside looking in, so maybe this is incorrect. But from here it does seem wild that the British left is seemingly breaking apart over opinions on a very small regional war thousands of miles away Britain really isn't involved in at all.
And it all just appears so much to be bad faith grandstanding. Not a single thing anyone on the British left is doing is impacting the war in the slightest, or helping the Palestinian people.
And as I have pointed out, kind of contradicts the point American leftists (and good old fashioned right wing antisemites) like to make they only care about this so much because the US is so involved.
When Britain is barely involved and really only symbolically, and left seemingly cares MORE about it there.
Of course it seems like that to you because you’re a far right winger and therefore you have no principles, same as the centrists who are pro Israel either because they’ve been bought or because they’re obeying orders from the US.
No we broke apart because starmer took the labour party to the right. Gaza may have been the breaking point for some but so many had already gone.
I am from the outside looking in, so maybe this is incorrect. But from here it does seem wild that the British left is seemingly breaking apart over opinions on a very small regional war thousands of miles away Britain really isn't involved in at all.And it all just appears so much to be bad faith grandstanding. Not a single thing anyone on the British left is doing is impact
The left cares a lot in Ireland, Spain, Italy as well. In Italy we have local elections in the next 1-3 months, and leftist mayors are recognizing the state of palestine (lol), one wanted to ban israel company from a commercial fair, soccer clubs associated to the left want to ban Israel from european soccer and so on.
It's all performative, they just love to pile on like that, that's what leftists do. Theater, never substance, and the more irrelevant their takes are the more they scream
No we broke apart because starmer took the labour party to the right. Gaza may have been the breaking point for some but so many had already gone.
Infighting is what the far left does, and is all it does. If the far left actually stood for anything but intra-factional cannibalistic strife, the SWP (of whose Stop The War front Corbyn has been a long-term promoter, which should have got him expelled from Labour over 20 years ago) would now rule the roost in popular appeal and there would be no room for the hypothetical new Red-Mosleyite party with no name and an already ongoing leadership dispute.
The left cares a lot in Ireland, Spain, Italy as well. In Italy we have local elections in the next 1-3 months, and leftist mayors are recognizing the state of palestine (lol), one wanted to ban israel company from a commercial fair, soccer clubs associated to the left want to ban Israel from european soccer and so on.It's all performative, they just love to pile on like that,
One way of dividing the world is between those who give a shitt about other people and those who don't. The people who only care about themselves and their families, the sociopaths, find it impossible that people could be any different and therefore they pour scorn and derision on others, calling it theatre and performance.
Infighting is what the far left does, and is all it does. If the far left actually stood for anything but intra-factional cannibalistic strife, the SWP (of whose Stop The War front Corbyn has been a long-term promoter, which should have got him expelled from Labour over 20 years ago) would now rule the roost in popular appeal and there would be no room for the hypothetical new
Another way of looking at it is when labour returned to the left because that's what the membership wanted, it was the right wing who fought it - maybe you dont count that as infighting because they aren't left wing.
Then they lied to get control back. Then they got rid of the left because they knew they couldn't keep the left in the party and keep control of the party.
but yeah it's the left.
A new Ipsos in the UK poll reveals that the left-wing political party recently founded by former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and MP Zarah Sultana could capture a significant segment of the British electorate, particularly among younger voters and those who supported the Labour and Green parties in the 2024 General Election.
Overall, 20% of British adults say they would be 'very' or 'fairly likely' to consider voting for a new left-wing party. This figure, however, masks a sharp generational divide. A third (33%) of those aged 16-34 would consider voting for the new party, a figure that drops to 22% among 35-54s and just 9% among those aged 55 and over.
Potential alliance with the Green party: The public is split on a potential electoral alliance between the new left-wing party and the Green Party, with 29% of Britons supporting such a pact and 28% opposing it. However, support is strong among key demographics, including 16-34s (46%), 2024 Labour voters (47%), and especially among those who would consider voting for the Green Party (60%) or the new left-wing party (74%).
A united ticket: An alliance between the two parties would be a potent force, with 31% of all Britons saying they would consider voting for a united ticket. This rises to a majority (52%) among 16-34s and includes nearly half (46%) of 2024 Labour voters.
You don't need a poll to tell you left-leaning voters are likely to vote for a left wing party.
What matters is who is likely to win Nuneaton, and Reform swept up in the council elections.
I see it as massive progress if it's now the norm for left wing people to vote for a left wing party.
You don't need a poll to tell you left-leaning voters are likely to vote for a left wing party.
What matters is who is likely to win Nuneaton, and Reform swept up in the council elections.
you need polls to try to understand if it's green/libdem voters moving there or current labor voters, or if it is "reactivating" voters that previously dropped out of voting.
Ofc for new entities polls are going to be less precise, and only real elections will give you some hard data to work on.
But still instead of pure guesstimates , polls are a tad better anyway.
As we saw in canada , how the leftist vote is going to concentrate (or disperse), can either allow for epic wins or for disastrous losses, even without moving a single vote outside of the left.
In canada the leftist vote coalesced around liberals because of the threat Trump was considered to be and that allowed a huge reversal of fortune for the party.
In the UK, it's plausible the opposite will happen with yet another "core leftist" party available: the vote will disperse enough to allow reform to have a significant absolute majority, and tories to survive much more than their share of the vote would imply or suggest. And that could happen even if the sum of labor+newleft + green + libdem voters is higher than it was in the previous elections.
That's first past the post without a bi-party system.
Anyway core leftists seem intentioned to give up one electoral cycle to the right, in order to have a chance to exist as a definite political option in the future, instead of voting for pseudo-leftist parties that don't do enough leftism (compared to their preferences). That's what rightists did with reform so they hope to achieve the same on the left.
The question then will become, will the center realize that it either coalesces or it disappears? will the green realize they cannot coexist with another actual leftist party existing?
In the UK, it's plausible the opposite will happen with yet another "core leftist" party available: the vote will disperse enough to allow reform to have a significant absolute majority, and tories to survive much more than their share of the vote would imply or
The hypothetical new Red-Mosleyite party can only benefit the right. The peculiar oppositional psychology of the far left means they're fine with enabling Reform, as the KPD were fine with enabling the NSDAP.
The hypothetical Labour Party can only benefit the right. By aping their policies it’s legitimised abhorrent attitudes to immigrants and made it more acceptable for people to vote far right, while its own popularity has plummeted because large numbers of decent people have abandoned it, a process that began even before the election.
The hypothetical Labour Party can only benefit the right. By aping their policies it’s legitimised abhorrent attitudes to immigrants and made it more acceptable for people to vote far right, while its own popularity has plummeted because large numbers of decent people have abandoned it, a process that began even before the election.
what you consider abhorrent attitudes to immigrants, are agreed with by an absolute majority of your country citizens.
If your democracy works, an absolute majority of elected representative will fully and clearly reflect that. Or, you hate democracy when the people don't agree with you and want a way to disregard the clear, explicit will of the people.
More nonsense. For decades after capital punishment was abolished a majority of the public wanted it restored and politicians rightly ignored them. Sometimes politicians have to lead instead of react.
If you ran a poll asking people "Do you want your net tax rate to drop by 10%?" you'd probably get a majority saying Yes.
Politics isn't giving people what they want. it's winning the argument for something different.
It might not be about giving people what they want, but it is about giving people what they voted for.
It's equally catastrophic to not give people what they voted for. Immigration has been a thing in politics for the best part of 20 years now, but elected parties have either done nothing at best, or at worst exacerbated the problem.
So, people therefore move further towards the parties who say they will address these problems, and they care less and less about the how.
They will and those who disagree have to oppose it, not appease it.
We're not going to disagree if we're saying that soundbites while doing **** all for decades has been a disaster.
It should be obvious people that you cant keep having failing health, housing, justice etc etc systems with ever rising inequality while not have some group increasingly demonised. Immigrants are the easiest target these days. Without new immigrants it would be something else.
Which in no way implies immigrants are to blame even though they will be blamed both generally and specifically.
