Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
its a pretty funny argument. so hes saying that Palestine is only as old as Israel? like, what does that say for Israel. sometimes I think they know the absurdity of their words but in this case its pretty clear he didnt think it through.
How old exactly did you think I think Israel is? I don’t recall ever arguing that Israel is the same as the entity that existed 2000 years ago that has been tossed around by multiple different rulers and empires.
Modern day Palestinians have no claim to any of the land in Israel and any land they may possess is by the grace of the Israelis. They should have taken one of the numerous, generous land offers the Israelis offered in the past.
If the Arabs have an issue with the land Israel has gained, they should stop attacking them.
Osborne is a serious right wing journalist unable to toe the party line when he feels strongly about something.
LOL. I checked out this guy's Wiki. He has spent his career being extremely anti-Israel, pro Iran, pro Muslim Brotherhood, and he blamed the 12 year old girls for being sluts for the Grooming Gang scandal.
The guy is a complete clown, and if you find yourself agreeing with him on anything, you should probably be worried. What positions does he hold that indicates to you that he is a "serious right wing journalist" anyone should care about his opinion on anything?
My overall point is this: is this the country Israelis want to live in? One where they have to have an awkward situation every time they hand over their passport, one where they are back to kibbutz-level subsistence farming, and one where they are holed up in a state of paranoia threatening everyone with nukes? The path to redemption is making major concessions to the Palestin
Israel spent decades with left wing leadership that tried making reasonable concessions with the Palestinians for peace, and received nothing but terror and destruction for their efforts. Then they elected a right wing government that promised to fight Palestinian (and their allies in terror) terrorism with force, and have been getting better results.
Maybe in the very long term the current strategy isn't viable, but because of unreasonable Palestinian intransigence (subsidized completely by your and I tax dollars) in the short term the right wing solution of getting rid of the Palestinians and destroying their allies is giving much better returns.
I personally think what the world should do is shut off the Palestinians, to force them to be more reasonable. Under the current status quo, the Palestinians seem content with their heavily subsidized "resistance" and living under pretty poor conditions by Western standards; but honestly for the Middle East not too bad, especially considering it is all free and they dont have to do anything for it. It isn't like the people in Yemen, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, etc. are doing much better. The world should shut off the Palestinians and force them to have a more functional, productive worldview and culture. Short of this, I really dont think there is anything Israel can do to stop "The resistance". "The resistance" is just too lucrative for too many people.
It is kind of wild how the antisemetic right and radical left is chimping out so heavily over "aid to Israel" while being so agnostic about the giant financial black hole that is "Palestine." The Palestinians have probably received $100 billion in aid over the decades and have jack **** to show for it. It is just a giant black hole where all the money goes to grift and terrorism.
Yeah man , Israel doing genocide is a very successful outcome .
Jfc …
Thx bibi , your awesome .
Ps: bibi been prime minister over 3 decades (longest in modern history) with little break in between .
To claim left wing for decades in Israel was bad while having bibi for 3 decades without much progress of anything , radicalization of his own population and neighbors ending up in genocide and calling it a success is some great story bro !
Ps: bibi been prime minister over 3 decades (longest in modern history) with little break in between .
To claim left wing for decades in Israel was bad while having bibi for 3 decades without much progress of anything , radicalization of his own population and neighbors ending up in genocide and calling it a success is some great story bro !
How familiar are you with Israel history? You dont appear very familiar. Israel has had a lot of progress in the last 3 decades on innumerable fronts. The last 3 decades have actually been extremely stable, peaceful and prosperous relative to Israel's history before that; which was marked by constant wars with nations with comparable military capabilities and much more manpower and resources, and constant terrorist attacks on civilians by Palestinians.
Now you can argue Netanyahu is taking things too far, and is in serious jeopardy of losing all the progress Israel has made. But to argue no progress of anything just shows you are an uninformed hater.
LOL. I checked out this guy's Wiki. He has spent his career being extremely anti-Israel, pro Iran, pro Muslim Brotherhood, and he blamed the 12 year old girls for being sluts for the Grooming Gang scandal. The guy is a complete clown, and if you find yourself agreeing with him on anything, you should probably be worried. What positions does he hold that indicates to you tha
I’m not his greatest fan because, as I said, he’s right wing (witness the publications he’s written for).
But he does at least try to take principled and moral positions which is unusual in journalists these days who are usually only concerned with tactical wins or both sidesing.
Typically you’ve completely misrepresented the stances he took on various issues as evidenced in his wiki page so as usual it’s not worth my time discussing any further with you, kelhu99, notorious neo Nazi.
I’m not his greatest fan because, as I said, he’s right wing (witness the publications he’s written for).But he does at least try to take principled and moral positions which is unusual in journalists these days who are usually only concerned with tactical wins or both sidesing. Typically you’ve completely misrepresented the stances he took on various issues as evidenced in his
Ok. What are some of his principled and moral positions I should take seriously?
He’s been on the staff of the Mail, the Telegraph and the Spectator, the most right wing “quality” mainstream publications in the UK. You trying to paint him as some kind of radical Islamist supporter is far beyond ridiculous.
In October 2019, Oborne wrote an article about how journalists and the media are being used by Downing Street to get their false news out, saying: "It's chilling. From the Mail, The Times to the BBC and ITN, everyone is peddling Downing Street's lies and smears. They're turning their readers into dupes."
The article was rejected by The Daily Mail, The Spectator, and Channel 4's Dispatches, and Oborne published it on openDemocracy. Oborne said: "This article marked the end of my thirty-year-long career as a writer and broadcaster in the mainstream British press and media. I had been a regular presenter on Radio 4's The Week in Westminster for more than two decades. It ceased to use me, without explanation. I parted company on reasonably friendly terms with the Daily Mail after our disagreement."[62] In an interview with Channel 4 News, he said that the journalists being used by the UK government include BBC News's Laura Kuenssberg and ITV News's Robert Peston.[63]
This is all absolutely correct, and unsurprisingly you won’t see any of the MSm discussing it for obvious reasons.
I don't actuallyAfter China was the victim of some terrorist attacks by islamic terrorists in Xinjiang (that all combined were far less severe than 7 10 alone to be clear, for a chinese population that is more than 100x the Israeli one) , it acted in a MASSIVELY DISPROPORTIONATE RESPONSE WAY.It mass arrested up to 1 million people, sterilized hundreds of thousands of them, gave
You're Mr. Might Makes Right.
If you don't have your own mining industry, if you don't have a vertically integrated military industrial complex, if you're on a tiny, easily blockaded piece of land, there is a price to pay.
China, as bad as they are with the Uygurs, are trying to increase soft power in the 3rd world. They aren't coming in to save the day. Same with Russia. Modi wants a Hindu-dominated India with pacified Muslims. He and his Hindu nationalist successors aren't either.
These countries don't have tens of millions of Protestants who want their government to fulfill biblical prophecies. Why Israel would risk the golden goose is beyond me, but who knows, maybe they have a plan to assassinate any serious contenders who run on a 'defund Israel' platform. Based on what we've seen in the past year, that may very well be the plan.
I guess we will have to see. I’d bet in 20 years Israel is still around and the Palestinians will still be living in abject poverty, with a new wave of useful idiots saying things like, “Israel is done once the new generation grows up.”
You might also want to touch some grass if you think evangelical Christians are the only thing keeping Israel afloat.
Israel spent decades with left wing leadership that tried making reasonable concessions with the Palestinians for peace, and received nothing but terror and destruction for their efforts. Then they elected a right wing government that promised to fight Palestinian (and their allies in terror) terrorism with force, and have been getting better results.
I mean it wasn’t a Palestinian that murdered Rabin for attempting to make peace. And Netanyahu himself made pretty obviously implicit calls for his death. Of course it was also Netanyahu that raise Hamas to prominence strategically. Not that it excuses their depravity but it is worth noting that the far right in Israel is absolutely insane and a huge impediment to peace themselves
I guess we will have to see. I’d bet in 20 years Israel is still around and the Palestinians will still be living in abject poverty, with a new wave of useful idiots saying things like, “Israel is done once the new generation grows up.”
You might also want to touch some grass if you think evangelical Christians are the only thing keeping Israel afloat.
at some point Israel will either run out of children to murder or they will be tossed in the dustbin of history next to the Nazis. maybe not in 20 years but hopefully.
I guess we will see. Most of Israel’s harshest critics are in objectively much worse spots with their continued existence being up in the air or they are largely irrelevant nations probably lined up to face their own domestic issues in the very near future. These countries should probably be concerned for their own well-being and existence more than Israel’s. History has shown that the countries who oppose Israel tend to fare poorly while the ones who choose to work with them fare better.
I guess we will see. Most of Israel’s harshest critics are in objectively much worse spots with their continued existence being up in the air or they are largely irrelevant nations probably lined up to face their own domestic issues in the very near future. These countries should probably be concerned for their own well-being and existence more than Israel’s. History has sho
Israel is a US client state sustained by US goodwill. This arrangement is becoming unpopular even among previously uncritical US Republicans.
Israel is a US client state sustained by US goodwill. This arrangement is becoming unpopular even among previously uncritical US Republicans.
There’s no evidence that this is true. Israel has nukes and a powerful military, it’s going to be hard for anyone to overtake them without sustaining a catastrophic amount of damage.
But ok, just keep repeating it over and over.
That may have once been true, but today it elides how much influence the Israel lobby has gained over US society over the decades.
It isn't in US interests to destroy the Palestinians -- two states was the preferred route. Yet here we are.
Israel is a US client state sustained by US goodwill. This arrangement is becoming unpopular even among previously uncritical US Republicans.
Israel has surely benefitted from a lot of US goodwill over the past few decades but I think you may need to lay off the YouTube vids and Twitter. That’s a very simplistic way of putting it.
How familiar are you with Israel history? You dont appear very familiar. Israel has had a lot of progress in the last 3 decades on innumerable fronts. The last 3 decades have actually been extremely stable, peaceful and prosperous relative to Israel's history before that; which was marked by constant wars with nations with comparable military capabilities and much more manpo
Yeah man I’m the uninformed hater saying Israel is not doing a genocide lol….
When you believe progress been made when the result is genocide (and isn’t finish btw ), well history will take care of you .
Ps: but yes I will grant you I am a hater.
I hate all dictators and governments that do genocide, I’m dumb like that shrug.
There’s no evidence that this is true. Israel has nukes and a powerful military, it’s going to be hard for anyone to overtake them without sustaining a catastrophic amount of damage.
But ok, just keep repeating it over and over.
There’s some truth to it due to the US and Israel being such close allies but in this context it’s mostly low effort propaganda.
The same people trying to push the narrative that Israel was dragging the US into WW3 are probably the same ones desperately trying to smear US Israeli relations. It’s just another angle of divisive propaganda aimed at destroying the US and its allies.
