The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Bad beats are part of the game. I understand that. But after absorbing more than my fair share on Poker Stars I switched

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22 July 2008 at 04:53 AM
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2047 Replies


Earlier posts are available on our legacy forum HERE

by TheWaddy

PS: Have you seen that precious chatgpt transcript? You use it to show what doctoring means and how a mod should act.You should use it to find what provokes means Again you confuse me with JohnMir. We are not the same person, have no connection and an argument over the word provoke has nothing to do with me. Extremely odd behaviour to keep quoting someone else in your gripe wit

I am not, these were your posts. It was YOU who asked chatgpt to show what doctoring means and what a mad should do..

by TheWaddy

It’s cool JohnMir, this what a Moderator should be able to control.

by TheWaddy

What made you think I was talking about Johnmir when I specifically said

" You use it to show what doctoring means and how a mod should act."

Which you did, thewaddy. And I showed it here again.
You should try that too sometimes, you know. Adding evidence to claims. Like with the next one...

by TheWaddy

I guess ive overestimated the fact in the case of the 888 omaha heads up example i gave, where it was stuck giving my opponents auto wins (300+ times on the run) with trips or better on preflop all ins when they were short stacked, was not mathmatically impossible, but in fact my incompetence.

Yea we all remember your tales of 300+ on the run auto-wins for your opponents
Except we dont.
Because you never showed it. You never ever do.
How hard could it be to show 300 hands on the run??? Especially since it contains an outcome mathmatically impossible! And therefore would prove a rig.

You just keep this info to yourself to protect the evil rigging poker companies 😉


by TheWaddy

It’s cool JohnMir, this what a Moderator should be able to control.

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Look, I think the situation doesn't really come from Moderators of the forum.

Looks, like it rather comes from its administration/owners, it is their directives.

Violations of the forum rules by several "defenders" of the fraud in online-gaming sphere are obvious.

I admit, that Slugant is communicating in more respectful manner now.

But a bit earlier, after he started to provide this kind of comments -

by Slugant

Must be tough being a non-walking tennis coach, almost as hard as being a non-winning professional poker player.

I had to write to the 2+2 support.

And asked them to

"1. Implement reasonable measures towards Slugant, according to your internal policy and to your expert assessment.

2. Please, at least, forbid Slugant to type in my personal topic which I started
https://twoplustwo.com/Discussion-of-Poker-Sites/13k3x/How-to-play-online-poker-according-to-a-software-algorithm---iPoker-Red-Star-Poker-room?isFirstNewPost=true#firstNewPost"

I didn't get any answer to my petition, TheWaddy. No a word.

Even though, I mentioned, that other forum members where not satisfied with his "manner of communicating".

Comparing to other poker forum - their support team (of other forum) always replied, warned aggressive (towards me) users, corrected insulting.

Here is going something strange, indeed.

Mike explained me in this thread, a bit earlier, that this thread is moderated differently due to some reasons.

I just share the info regarding the situation. Because this thread is pretty serious. It is dedicated to the integrity of poker gaming. Nothing could be more important. It's not a "fun" thread.

I can only state for sure - Slugant is not some "casual" user of the forum. That's simply obvious. He represents the forum / online poker sites and acts aggressively to anyone, who is against the fraudulent organizations. And he is allowed by the forum's administration to brake any forum rules -

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I would even say, this is not just "obvious", nor my opinion. Now, it's simply a fact (after 2+2 support ignored my message regarding his behavior).


by TheWaddy

I think by saying ‘most people’ back online decks on here, you are factually correct Â… However I would not get too excited if I was financially invested in online poker sites, to find 45% of the users on here (most who use a forum away from sites will b keen poker enthusiasts) do not fully trust their decks.I think I would have done something to give my indu

I find it a bit odd that the current leader of a country received less than 50% of the votes cast to fill that position, so obviously certain percentages don't mean a lot.

In the case of the "vote" attached to this thread, I doubt if many per cent of those who trust the game have ever even visited this thread, let alone voted in it. I find it a bit odd that you think the figures mean virtually anything useful at all, when it's bound to be a subject that draws in many more disbeliever and loser readers rather than those who are serious and winning students of the game, who like to spend their limited time here positively, reading and asking and answering questions in the strategy forums.

But, please carry on playing on sites you think are rigged, without trying to learn how to beat the game, just using your own system of play as against that which is accepted as a necessary starting point. The winners need you in their games.


by Slugant

I am not the one introducing myself on 4+ platforms as an expert level player who plays $100 sng's even though stuck at absolute microsI am not saying I am elite player. I am miles behind people like Linus.You have said you could be on-par with him. The player considered to be the best over the last 5 years. You got a butthurt ego, one so fragile you are scared to finish your i

Man, what is the problem? You can introduce yourself in any way. And watch, what my reaction to it will be!

Try to upload materials regarding the room and watch my reaction.

I won't say a word about your first introduction like "I'm an expert level player" - I will watch your materials.

If you comment my "wording" - you

1. Got a fragile ego ))
2. Or you try to avoid conversation regarding the intergrity in poker games

And, man, I didn't say, that I play 100$ SnGs/MTTs on Gipsy Team forum. Just wanted to draw your attention to it. I just types some text fast. I didn't try to introduce myself in my BIO in any "special" way, because it's not as important as my materials are.

And man, I don't know Linus!! At all! How can I say if i'm better/worse, if I just don't know him!

by Slugant

So why are your results that of a fish?
You are not being targeted and many of your opponents do win even though they face the same prescribed algorithm.
You think pro's dont cash out??? How are they pro's then if they never get money out of poker?

I'm not targetted personally. I just don't comply with some internal conditions of the room, according to its "user account assessments". And many other players might face the same. And they do. I can't provide you comments from Red Star Poker official telegram chat, because I'm banned there. But 2 more people described just the same situation. 1 table, withdrawing the money - stopped winning.

by Slugant

Ive said before, have you read the positives? They are mocking you and are being plussed for it.
If they really liked your stuff how do you get a personal rating of -745

Man, we got your point here. This topic is funny. Yes they all hate me, but even though I opened an unpleasent topic on the forum - 14 players put me positive rating (!!)

by Slugant

If you were provoked by software, you got provoked. No matter what action you took.
If the software provokes you, you got provoked. No matter what action you took.

Look, it's easy.

I noticed, that my hand matches with the flop cards extremely often.

It matches extremely often.

My conclusion it is implemented to provoke weak players to participate in postflop gaming, which (the postflop gaming) is not run according to a true chances. And this is proved by me with a 99.999 999 992% confidential level.

by Slugant

But please ask it what the Dunning-Kruger effect is, because you and Johnmir are the perfect posterboys for it.

Look, am I right, that this Dunning-Kruger effect complies to anyone, who suspect online poker gaming rigged?

Because you have also said that towards Amazing3338.

So, Lil Larusso, TiltBoy, me, TheWaddy, PolarBear and many many others - anyone, who is against the fraud in online poker sphere are "mad and crazy"?

Deep position, man 😃

by Slugant

You guys really are blind men telling others how to see things.

Personally, I expect people to analyze and to investigate the situation themself. I'm not really aiming them to believe. Because in my opinion this is totally wrong. You shouldn't "believe" in something, most-likely, it will lead you to mistakes in life. Only real understanding of what is going on, or what is said - gives you advantages in life. I'm serious, and that is why i'm commenting my points/materials carefully, in details.

by TheWaddy

having a poster of him on my wall

I suspect Slugant to be my fan, btw, too much attention from him lately

by TheWaddy

[B]But you wont, you never showed anything on this forums.
Except a deep misunderstanding of poker of course.

Lol, I was wondering too, where did Slugant manage to meet your misunderstanding of the game? Since you almost never mentioned any gaming strategies.


slugant said

PS: Have you seen that precious chatgpt transcript? You use it to show what doctoring means and how a mod should act.
You should use it to find what provoke means


TheWaddy replied;

Again you confuse me with JohnMir. We are not the same person, have no connection and an argument over the word provoke has nothing to do with me. Extremely odd behaviour to keep quoting someone else in your gripe with me.

Slugant said;

I am not, these were your posts. It was YOU who asked chatgpt to show what doctoring means and what a mad should do..

Once again he goes on the attack whilst not understanding the point! What is wrong ith this guy!!!?

Do you not ask me to look up the word 'provoke'???? Why are you asking me to look up the word 'provoke', when the argument over this word was with JOHNMIR (ffs! again)???? Then you say you are not quoting someone else in your gripe with me!

You are not all there lad!

Johnmir said

Lol, I was wondering too, where did Slugant manage to meet your misunderstanding of the game? Since you almost never mentioned any gaming strategies.

He seems to think we are the same person, siamese twins or whatever..... he just gets very confused clearly

Slugant said;

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWaddy
I guess ive overestimated the fact in the case of the 888 omaha heads up example i gave, where it was stuck giving my opponents auto wins (300+ times on the run) with trips or better on preflop all ins when they were short stacked, was not mathmatically impossible, but in fact my incompetence.

Yea we all remember your tales of 300+ on the run auto-wins for your opponents
Except we dont.
Because you never showed it. You never ever do.

So i needed some info for work on an old memory stick. Coincidentally, there was a few weeks worth of the 888 situation on there during Spring 2020. So although i wasnt going to trawl through stuff, as you will have a ready made answer for it already.... lets give you a few weeks of examples.

Remember the situation. They had called off the vast majority of their chips in omaha heads up sngs, where they were obviously beat. Eg they had a sucker straight on a flush and full house board... clearly they could only beat a bluff, they were not good enough to fold an obviously beat hand. So they are now shortstacked and push all in preflop. The first all in preflop after such a hand, they dont just win, they get trips or better.

This situation only comes up now and then during Omaha heads up games, obviously many games play out without this specific situation.

Clearly i only started screenshotting these when i had already seen such a huge amount, that it became very noticeable. Why else would i start doing a screenshot of these? I am just trying to be as specific as i can about the situation that im talking about, as Slugant is bound to misunderstand.

Remember, Its just all ins preflop when they opponent is now short stacked due to calling off most their stack with obviously beat hands. Not only do they auto win... this would be weird ... but not anything near as weird as them winning with trips or better and absolutely nothing else.... and me zero.

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And so it went on.... and on.... and on...... I closed my account despite still going on to win some of these games. The situation became untenable for me, because in the end i just had to call the first all in preflop with absolutely anything, even 3338 and the likes.... as it didnt matter if i had good hands or not, that first all in was going to be trips or better for them. It made sense to get the first all in preflop 'out of the way', folding would only mean a bigger double up for them when it eventually came.

This was my experience.

How you would interpret that happening to you, is your decision. If you felt it was something that was possible, that would be your opinion.

Im afraid the maths told me it wasnt possible, so what other conclusion could i come to?

The odds of just 10 wins on the run at 50/50, like a coin flip, is odds of 1024-1. Add into that the chance of trips or better... on just 10 on the run.... odds of 1024-1 then gets incredible.... so i experienced 300+ on the run....

But im told i need to study harder to stop this happening and learn the game.

Hmmmmmmmm


by TheWaddy

And so it went on.... and on.... and on...... I closed my account despite still going on to win some of these games. The situation became untenable for me, because in the end i just had to call the first all in preflop with absolutely anything, even 3338 and the likes.... as it didnt matter if i had good hands or not, that first all in was going to be trips or better for them.

I met this kind of the software's behavior on iPoker too. But I didn't gather data for this, cause I had got another proof of rigging the game.

The reason is very easy, the software tries to keep them in game and, in case we talk about iPoker, it will provoke a negative all-in a bit later, to reduce your potential ROI%.

The software aims to reduce your expected profitability like that. Pay attention to what happened after these lost all-ins. Did you meet some crazy stuff like JJ vs KK (sorry, I do know holdem poker well, but not omaha).

Very wise to go all-in on any cards. Good job.

I did exactly the same, in case my opponent got less then 20% of all chips, I push every next hand and this gives me a chance to steal the blinds, or to play this "useless" all-in. Exactly. Agree with you.

P.S. Look at the maths of the situation, which you describe.

Let's say we play an all-in of 80% to win and he got 300 chips, you have got 1700 chips.

And if you win this all-in - what is your expected ITM (chances to win) then?

80% + 20% * (1400/2000) = 94% ITM Right? (80% - you win this game, and in other 20% cases you play 1400 vs 600 and your chances to win are 1400/2000 = 70%)

Now, let's say, you lose this all-in, and, as a result of the software's provocation, you play 20% all-in (very bad one) 600 vs 1400 chips (because he has already doubled up), but you win this 20% second all-in.

What will be your ITM% here?

80% + 20% * ( 20% + 80% * (800/2000) ) = 90.4%

This way, the software reduced your profitability (your ITM will become 3.6% lower, so, your ROI will also reduce)

P.S.2. I don't even describe these things regarding iPoker. Because guys can't understand much easier stuff. It's senseless to discuss real economics of poker gaming here. EV ICM$ calculations are not for the chat of this level.


by Johnmir

I didn't get any answer to my petition

By now you would think you are used to this, maybe your petitions dont make any sense?

by Johnmir

Even though, I mentioned, that other forum members where not satisfied with his "manner of communicating".

A lot of members also arent fan of your way of communicating, i.e. lying your ass off
Do you deserve a ban?

by Johnmir

You can introduce yourself in any way. And watch, what my reaction to it will be!

So if i can introduce myself as the main expert of rigging and say poker isnt rigged, you'll believe it?
If you truly dont see the problem with the way you introduce yourself as an expert level player you are delusional

by Johnmir

And man, I don't know Linus!! At all! How can I say if i'm better/worse, if I just don't know him!

by Johnmir

Look, Linus CAN BE A SUPERIOR player. But he complies with a KEY FACTOR - number of tables in game. And everyone else is out of the game. I mean, we don't really know what would show Linus in a fair game. If the software influence on the gaming process (just imagine this, what if someone prove - accounts of players are favored in some order which is determined by the room) - th

You seem to know he multitables and therefore has a favored rng
But the fact that you are not able to distance yourself from the reg considered to be the best is staggering
And you likely dont know this but midstakes players multitable, highest stakes players often play only 1 table on the room.
So he absolutely doesnt comply well with the key factor of multitabling.
It is funny you say "just imagine this, what if someone prove - accounts of players are favored in some order which is determined by the room".
You know its never proven and it just a thought bubble of yours right? If you actually worked on this theory and you would prove it I would applaud you. Honestly!
And yes if that was proven we cannot fairly judge a player based on his results. But nobody, not even you, has proven even 0,001% of it.
And I think we both know you never will :(

by Johnmir

I'm not targetted personally. I just don't comply with some internal conditions of the room, according to its "user account assessments". And many other players might face the same. And they do. I can't provide you comments from Red Star Poker official telegram chat, because I'm banned there. But 2 more people described just the same situation

Lol at you being banned
but wow 2 more people believe the same crap you do
but if what if we find 3 people who dont?? would that be telling?
Maybe you should play according to the internal conditions and start winning
would finally finish your research 😉

by Johnmir

My conclusion it is implemented to provoke weak players to participate in postflop gaming

But the software provokes YOU
so are you therefore a weak player???
also, do you understand what the word provokes means now?

by Johnmir

Look, am I right, that this Dunning-Kruger effect complies to anyone, who suspect online poker gaming rigged?

It applies to everyone who is terrible at something yet think they know all about it
Its not my fault that all the riggies somehow fall into this category while pro's dont

by Johnmir

Lol, I was wondering too, where did Slugant manage to meet your misunderstanding of the game? Since you almost never mentioned any gaming strategies.

Bragging about a 1.43 avg buyin and winning some spare change is more than enough to know you are dealing with someone uncapable
Capable players would be ashamed of these results

by TheWaddy

What are hands like these are supposed to show?
Wow you lost with 8333 to 7764
One would struggle to show a less bland hand on PLO

And youve said youve been playing for 20 years, you must know how to use a tracker instead of showing 11 (not quite 300+) loose screenshots of nothing out of the ordinary
If you are having bad beats 300 times in a row I suggest you show these in a tracker
Anyone can find 11 bad beats, but you didnt even managed to do that
How do you think 3833 losing to 7764 is a bad beat???
And if you play PLO I hope you know that you make "absolute strong hands" like trips+ all the time, 4 cards will do that to you.
You should read the high stakes thread with a lot of 5card PLO, it gets a lot sicker than that

by TheWaddy

I closed my account

Kudos on this, its probably the wisest decision you've ever made in poker

by TheWaddy

Im afraid the maths told me it wasnt possible, so what other conclusion could i come to?

The odds of just 10 wins on the run at 50/50, like a coin flip, is odds of 1024-1

What is your definition of "on the run"? Do you mean it like running consecutive or "on the run" as in avoid being caught (like saying it went on and on and on while in fact it was 11 hands in 3 months)
Because we can clearly see from the hands and potsizes column in your screenshots that these are not consecutive hands, not even close to consecutive either
In fact we can see the dates from the hands.
They range from 26th of february 2020 to the 24th of may 2020
If these were the worst beats you could find in 3 months time you ran hotter than the sun, no wonder you won some pocket money

I can pick 11 hands just today where I lost with a strong hand and I play NLHE
Why on earth would 11 "bad beats" in 3 months time mean anything?
And most of them arent beats at all. Like AT54 losing to Q765 isnt a bad beat either (its literally 49,85% to 49,60% with a 0,55% tie, Its almost the most flip hand you'll ever see
And why did you decide to "do the math" on these seperate hands instead of the whole bunch? A good analyst would never do such a thing.

by TheWaddy

But im told i need to study harder to stop this happening and learn the game.

I would never say this btw. I think you are incapable of it. I would tell you to find a different hobby.

by Johnmir

I met this kind of the software's behavior on iPoker too.

And by behaviour like this you mean you can also find 11 good/solid/kinda weak hands losing in 3 months time???
WOW. shut the place down immediately!!!!


Ok final post. I cant argue with a guy who answers consistently with things he knows are not what is being said. He cant be a day over the age of 20. Surely?

Lets do this one more time.

Slugant said;

What are hands like these are supposed to show?

Wow, i gave a very specific description, even repeated it mentioning that the repeat was just for you and your awful misunderstandings.

Slugant said;

Wow you lost with 8333 to 7764
One would struggle to show a less bland hand on PLO.

Man alive, i even mentioned this specific hand in explaining that i had to call with any hand in the end, as the end result i felt was already set in stone. I mentioned it specifically in the post, as i absolutely knew it would only be this hand you would lay into to, its what you do. To fold would just make the double up bigger for when i eventually would have to call. I know you do know this already as i explained it fully.... its just your pathetically childish way of going about answering that is just so predictable.

Slugant said;

And youve said youve been playing for 20 years, you must know how to use a tracker instead of showing 11 (not quite 300+) loose screenshots of nothing out of the ordinary

Wow. This guy will drive you insane, this is why its my final post. How many times have i answered you that i dont use a tracker and the reasons for that? The result? You say i must know how to use a tracker. I dont use and have never used a tracker. Jesus, what is wrong with you.

I clearly said why i was putting up some examples. I clearly said why these examples were on a stick for Spring 2020 that i was using yesterday. I clearly said why i wasnt going to waste my time finding more. Because its a waste of time and energy providing them for someone who childishly interprets them.

Slugant said;

If you are having bad beats 300 times in a row I suggest you show these in a tracker
Anyone can find 11 bad beats, but you didnt even managed to do that

This probably the weirdest, childish comment i ever heard you say... and thats saying something. Who has described these hands as bad beats? I gave a full explanation of the situation i was talking about, even a special one for you, as i said you were bound to misunderstand. Boy, you didnt let me down did you??

I gave a full explanation of a very specific situation, that only will occur every so often in heads up games. Slugants reply is ive looked for 11 bad beats and should have found better examples!!! They are not bad beats, you have just made that up that i suggested they were! How could i find different examples, when these are the only situation that im talking about!?? My point was when my opponent had just lost a pot that decimated his stack calling off poorly, he auto won the next all in preflop with trips or better.... the quality of those hands is totally irrelevant!!!

Wind up merchant or low IQ.... seriously you decide.

Slugant said;

And if you play PLO I hope you know that you make "absolute strong hands" like trips+ all the time, 4 cards will do that to you.
You should read the high stakes thread with a lot of 5card PLO, it gets a lot sicker than that

I have a revolving silver star at FullTilt for Omaha hi lo. Funnily enough i am aware of hand strength. You have to be under the age of 20 to be writing this?

Slugant said;

What is your definition of "on the run"? Do you mean it like running consecutive or "on the run" as in avoid being caught (like saying it went on and on and on while in fact it was 11 hands in 3 months)
Because we can clearly see from the hands and potsizes column in your screenshots that these are not consecutive hands, not even close to consecutive either
In fact we can see the dates from the hands.
They range from 26th of february 2020 to the 24th of may 2020

Now its getiing really scary in who i am dealing with. People check my post. I said in it i would repeat the situation as Slugant will misunderstand. As you can see, im a very astute person to predict he would reply this way. Why cant you grasp that it was a very specific situation, only were it was the first all in preflop after my opponent had lost the vast majority of his chips with poor obviously beat calls? Why are you not able to grasp that it will only be a few games that would be played out to fit that scenario?

I can not do this anymore, this is just simply weird. This guy needs help. Is this not trolling at the highest level? No-one would interpret my post the way he has.

Slugant said;

Why on earth would 11 "bad beats" in 3 months time mean anything?

They wouldnt. But the post isnt about bad beats. You know its not a post about bad beats. How could an all in at Omaha preflop ever be described as a bad beat.

Why are you talking about bad beats in replying to my post about the above specific situation. That i predicted you would misunderstand before you actually did.

Slugant said;

And most of them arent beats at all. Like AT54 losing to Q765 isnt a bad beat either (its literally 49,85% to 49,60% with a 0,55% tie, Its almost the most flip hand you'll ever see

We know the odds in Omaha is never going to be much more than 50/50 preflop. That is probably why i did a big thing on the coin flip odds in the original post. Somehow though, you have interpreted my post as suggesting they are bad beats and that i dont know the odds. Is it a wind up, or is this guy really thinking hes getting one over on me with these replies? Plain weird.

Slugant said;

I would never say this btw. I think you are incapable of it. I would tell you to find a different hobby.

Oh the irony. Slugants hobby is posting on here. He has just posted the mother of all posts, demonstrating an absolutely unbelievable misunderstanding of what was being said.

Readers can disagree with my thoughts on online poker, but i think they would agree the way you go about your replies is embarrassing. They would maybe agree with your overall opinion on online poker, but would never want to be associated with such a person.

I think Slugant is the reason there is only 3 or 4 people making comments on this thread anymore. Im sure this will be down to 2 very shortly.


by TheWaddy

Ok final post

Deal 😀 Especially with your backwards way of quoting lately.

by TheWaddy

Wow, i gave a very specific description

Which was wrong. You said these hands were "on the run" and this "went on and on and on"
You never explained what you think these sentences mean, and you never will since you've made your last post.
But in no way, shape or form do those things mean "i've picked 11 lost hands out of 3 months"

by TheWaddy

i had to call with any hand in the end, as the end result i felt was already set in stone. I mentioned it specifically in the post, as i absolutely knew it would only be this hand you would lay into to, its what you do. To fold would just make the double up bigger for when i eventually would have to call.

You felt things were set in stone so you called and lost with a hand which had 20% equity.
Geez, you are at poker :p
When my opponents goes all-in I always call with 72o because if I call a better hand I might actually win something.

by TheWaddy

I have a revolving silver star at FullTilt for Omaha hi lo

Who needs results, who needs to pay his mortgage from poker winnings, who needs the respect from his peers, who needs a healthy relationship with poker...
Thewaddy has a REVOLVING SILVER STAR
All bow down to the waddy!

by TheWaddy

No-one would interpret my post the way he has.

I rather think nobody would interpret "on the run" like you do.
ironically since you've made your last post, you are now more on the run that you ever were.

by TheWaddy

We know the odds in Omaha is never going to be much more than 50/50 preflop

Well thats just not true, you called with 8333 vs 7764 which has 80% equity vs you, its basically a KK vs QQ allin spot. Except you used a trash hand.

by TheWaddy

this is why its my final post

You've said it twice now, dont back out 😀
Goodbye the waddy,
Microstakes will miss you.


Slugant said
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWaddy
this is why its my final post
You've said it twice now, dont back out
Goodbye the waddy,

I admit, i am very disappointed with myself that i returned and argued with a child again. I am very aware that they way Sites, Forums and those that have figured out the algorhytms to a very high standard (AKA online poker pro's) all use the same technique to get those questioning things to 'eventually go away'. The Moderator actually used those words himself whilst writing one of his belittling posts. Its a proven and recurring technique.

Your particulary dumbfounding interpretations of posts, i am on the fence of whether you work for a site/forum to achieve people to be driven so insane, that they 'go away'.... or that you are under the age of 20 and just are getting a kick of deliberately misiterpreting posts.... or just have a very low IQ. I did cut you some slack to believe things were lost in translation as your first language is not English, but after that last post, im taking this off the table.

You may get a bonus off whoever your represent, that i no longer want to argue. Well done. i look forward to reading your 'he said it was his final post, but hes posted' childishly predictable reply, but wont be answering this time. You can have the last childish word.

I will leave you with a last example of this guy misunderstanding with this comment.

Slugant posted;


Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWaddy

i had to call with any hand in the end, as the end result i felt was already set in stone. I mentioned it specifically in the post, as i absolutely knew it would only be this hand you would lay into to, its what you do. To fold would just make the double up bigger for when i eventually would have to call.

You felt things were set in stone so you called and lost with a hand which had 20% equity.
Geez, you are at good at poker
When my opponents goes all-in I always call with 72o because if I call a better hand I might actually win something.

Oh my days. I am playing a heads up SNG, where the next all in preflop my opponent is going to win, no matter what im holding. So if he has 200 chips and i have 1800, the blinds are 30/60.... and i fold the 20% equity hand... he then has 260 chips... the next hand i have similar and fold... he now has 290... Now when i eventually call an all in preflop, which he is going to win with trips or better, he will win 580 chips.... where as if i call the first all in which he is auto winning anyway... he wins just 400 chips.

Im sorry that you cant understand absolutely anything that is being said, but as he is going to automatically win the first all in preflop, its kind of the best strategy to do this whilst he holds the very minimum amount of chips to double up with.

Can you believe that after all those last 2 posts, the guy still replies with 'you should have folded, your calling with a terrible hand, your shite at poker'???

The one thing you have achieved, despite making a complete fool of yourself, is getting me to call it a day. How could anyone continue with this person?


To be fair, we are all disappointed you've made another post

I know you have very little grasp on the words of others but somehow you also dont understand what you are saying yourself.

Waddy's dictionary:
On the run = happened 11 times in 3 months time
Last post = Make another post 2 hours later
Everyone who disagrees is a child or low IQ -> get criticized himself -> mweehhhh the people on the forum tease me mommyyyyyy
Riggies lying their ass off = fine & none of his business -> others stating inconvenient facts = shilling

I bet the double standards department who you clearly represent will give you a hefty bonus

Good riddance 😀


by TheWaddy

Slugant said;

If you are having bad beats 300 times in a row I suggest you show these in a tracker

Did he actually say that? That's hilarious 😃.

I'm sure he won't even get why that's hilarious.


Its hilarious because you already have a tracker filtered to show only lost hands 😉
But boy oh boy do you run bad

You would rather show 300 seperate screenshots instead of 1 comprising all??? I know great minds think alike but apparently flawed riggie minds think alike as well.

Also, feel free to chime in here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/25/pr...
People actually find your way of "doing math" hilarious
Maybe you can show some pages from a math textbook to explain why your way of incorrectly seeing things is actually the right way


by Slugant

Its hilarious because you already have a tracker filtered to show only lost hands 😉But boy oh boy do you run badYou would rather show 300 seperate screenshots instead of 1 comprising all??? I know great minds think alike but apparently flawed riggie minds think alike as well.Also, feel free to chime in here:

Did I post screenshots from a tracker? The irony of your statement goes over your head again. 😉

I showed multiple screen shots buddy. At least one (I believe actually 2, maybe 3) with just all in hands separated.

Like I said multiple times I'm not here to prove something to your satisfaction.

And to prove that you will never admit when proven wrong, you have said multiple times I never proved anything. Well one of my first statements was " sample size isn't the be all and end all. It only makes the standard deviation smaller. If you are 5 standard deviations away from the mean with a 500 hand sample size or 5 million hand sample size the odds are the same." That was proven from the excerpts from the stats textbook I posted, but you still deny I proved it.


Nobody denied that textbook you dweep
But where in that textbook did it say to filter for only lost hands?
If the input is skewed, the output is skewed. A normal person would understand this immediately but somehow it goes over your head each time

by Amazing3338

Did I post screenshots from a tracker?

Yes of course, are you claiming you didnt???

This what you showed, you filtered all lost hands and somehow were surpised to run a lot under ev

by Amazing3338

And let's add another breakdown. I find it unbelievable that my all in adjusted differential on all the all in hands I lost can hover around 0 for over a thousand hands.

Clearly, for all to see. This is a screenshot of holdem manager 3. (a trial version in fact, because the small stakes version is a whopping $60:p)

And in case you havent figured it out in all your years of poker, holdem manager is a tracker. Even thewaddy who doesnt use a tracker knows that LOLOLOL

Did you honestly not know what a tracker is??? hahahahaha
Your lack of knowledge never ceases to amaze


by Slugant

Nobody denied that textbook you dweepBut where in that textbook did it say to filter for only lost hands?If the input is skewed, the output is skewed. A normal person would understand this immediately but somehow it goes over your head each timeYes of course, are you claiming you didnt???This what you showed, you filtered all lost hands and somehow were surpised to run a lot un

Of course you denied it. Because I said it proved what I said was true and you said it did not. Or you lied for 10 months because you wouldn't admit you were proven wrong.

And talk about a distraction, when you try to make some kind of absurd association with my textbook evidence I posted with a completely separate post with a graph of the all in hands I lost. They are literally over a week apart. Talk about desperate.

Clearly someone is too stupid to understand sarcasm about the tracker. The fact that I actually have to explain to you the irony of your statement to Waddy about him posting his tracker data goes over your head AGAIN, when you claimed my posted tracker data was not evidence.


Yea sure, when you said "Did I post screenshots from a tracker?" it was "sarcastic"...
On a scale from amazing to johnmir, how believable do you think that is?

Guess we can put sarcastic to the long list of words amazing doesnt comprehend, joining "tracker", "evidence", "winning at poker" and a ton more.

Your hm3 screenshots weren't evidence.. at least not for but you meant it
It was evidence for how little you know about poker and maths

Your "posted tracker data" (look, you just learned a new word) shows only lost hands... Do you still honestly not get that when you input only lost hands your outputis skewed and isnt applicable to all hands??

But anyway, if you think its clearly evidence, you might to explain yourself in the math forums.
Because the mathboys there think you are full of rubbish too.
In fact, from the screenshots you've posted they say you are running good while you were trying to prove the opposite.

Since you are so confident you are right why havent you ever joined in there??? not even once
You have the johnmir disease... You present stuff as truth/proven but never stand behind it because deep down you know you are lying.
But please, if you can delude yourself why not try to delude the math forum guys and give them a good laugh as well.


by Slugant

Yea sure, when you said "Did I post screenshots from a tracker?" it was "sarcastic"... On a scale from amazing to johnmir, how believable do you think that is?Guess we can put sarcastic to the long list of words amazing doesnt comprehend, joining "tracker", "evidence", "winning at poker" and a ton more.Your hm3 screenshots weren't evidence.. at least not for but you meant itIt

You had multiple hints it was sarcasm. I said you wouldn't get why it was hilarious (as I predicted you didn't). Then I said the irony of your statement goes over your head again with an emoji. This isn't the first time someone has said the sarcasm goes over your head. Clearly you need things explained to you at an elementary level.

As far as screen shots I posted multiple screen shots. Anyone saying I was running good clearly knows nothing about HM3. The all in adjusted differential proves that. As anyone can see the all in adj diff is negative on individual all in hands I won and positive on individual all in hands I lost. So if I won more that I should have my all in adj would be negative and the fact is my all in adj was positive 3.7 million (again having to explain it at an elementary level because you can figure out the obvious). Anyone who couldn't figure that out by the screenshots is a moron (step up to the plate Slugant). And the fact that you constantly argue about facts that you are clearly wrong about (like claiming I never proved anything when the textbook actually reiterated what I posted) proves you will never acknowledge you were proven wrong even when indisputable evidence is provided.

And finally as I have said multiple times when you demanded I provide my GG files, I don't need to prove something to your satisfaction. And if you actually got the better of me, as you often claim, you wouldn't need me to relitigate all of this again with someone else. As the expression goes, thou does protest too much for someone who claims they proved me wrong. Your act of desperation is not my problem.


You said i wouldnt get it about waddy phrase "If you are having bad beats 300 times in a row I suggest you show these in a tracker" and why you thought it was hilarious
But your sarcasm remark was about "Did I post screenshots from a tracker?"
Your chronological work isnt so strong here.

And neither is what you think/claim is "sarcasm", check out the yakov smirnoff level of wit

by Amazing3338

Did I post screenshots from a tracker?

hahahahahahaha what satire, what sarcasm.
Look out everybody, there is a new Mark Twain in town :p

by Amazing3338

Anyone saying I was running good clearly knows nothing about HM3.

Dont say it here, tell them

by heehaww

the row with by far the most hands shows them winning 54% of showdowns—slightly outperforming AAIE—so idk what the complaint even is. They outperformed more in the next largest sample. Are they saying it's rigged in favor of hero?

by heehaww

what is this supposed to show us? That they're bad at poker?

😃



Guys, I had to spend some more time preparing a list of key messages, which were made during the discussions. The chat is too long, but players, who wanna get the key points might drown in the thread, while trying to find significant statements.

https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59089...

I only took my own messages, but it is also important to mention, that guys - MagRailPro, Amazing3338, TheWaddy and others - have also shared a well-thought ideas/information regarding the current situation in online poker.

Yes, as a result we got something close to a book

Funny stuff, yes, but what can I do, if in stead of just publishing the research, which everyone would understand fastly, we had to discuss an understandable rigging schemes for 50 pages ))

Spoiler
Show

Guys,
due to a huge discussion of the game integrity specifically in iPoker net, and, generally, in online-poker sphere, it became reasonable to summarize all the materials, explanations, ideas, which build a whole picture, of what is really going on according to my researches, tests, calculations and views, how online poker rooms work.

I would like to mention, that the materials are not only based on my personal investigations and statistical calculations, but it is also based on a numerous conversations/discussions of the topic of rigging the game with pro/amateur players on poker tables, forums, chats.

I mean, I don’t pretend to describe the whole sphere alone, even though, I took a significant part in uncovering of the fraudulent scheme.

Feel free to read and to use this list of links according to your interest/speciality/needs.

I believe, these materials, in total, cover almost all the possible questions - how does the sphere work?

Pay attention to the discussions, which follow after the messages mentioned below. So that, you will also assess different points of view, provided by other forum members regarding my statements.

Also, feel free to share your views, your experience, regarding any topics, mentioned below
(In case you met something very similar in gaming on a regular basis – dependencies in poker games. You contacted to the supervision authorities of countries, which are mentioned in my research – what was the outcome? The response?)

Chapter I. Proofs of rigging in iPoker – the materials and its explanation

Spoiler
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A) General proof of rigging the game in iPoker
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

B) Critical deviation of the flop hitting regarding provoking of a tight player to participate in a postflop, which becomes a clear proof of the flop cards rigging in iPoker
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

A short explanation, what exactly was uncovered on iPoker during the games vs a “sit-out” player
https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58908...

A detailed explanation of “Provocation of a tight player to a postflop” dependency of iPoker’s software (version 1)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

A detailed explanation of “Provocation of a tight player to a postflop” dependency of iPoker’s software (version 2)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

C) Results of communication with Gambling Supervision Authorities. Ignoring of the fraud in iPoker by Curacao
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

D) Message examples for players, who suspect iPoker is rigging its poker games – to iPoker’s support, to Curacao Gaming Control Board, to The UK Gambling Commission
https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59065...

Chapter II. Explanation of key rigging schemes of the deck

Spoiler
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How the software helps a weak player after a mistake on SnG tournament (illustration)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

An example of the software provocation of a player to commit a mistake after several highly profitable all-ins
https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58905...

Example of folding of a pocket top pair “in time” (the second part of the message)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

An example of folding a premium hand after a bluff
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Trapping of premium hands
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

A) Gaming VS the software of iPoker – multitable tournament detailed explanation
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Distributing of starting hands between players. Why it is impossible to prove rigging without opening of all the starting hands of the opponents (the second part of the message)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Examples of predicting of the software “traps”, having strong preflop hands
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

B) A detailed explanation of how the software of the room makes all the players equal – gaming processes in Sng/MTTs and in Cash games. Algorithm of the hands dealing
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Why posflop gaming is not going according to the true chances
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Why it is impossible to prove rigging without opening of the opponents starting hands
(in the end of the message)

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Blocking of the flop winning by the software
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Postflop rigging on significant pots (critical flop hitting frequency of the opponent)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

C) What you should check in your room, in case you want to test, if the game is fair (the end of the long message – “Good end = bad start” and “Cool combination series” rules)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

An example of hands distributing between players to implement action into the postflop
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Chapter III. Player’s account management by the room

Spoiler
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A) Why it is important to make all the players equal between each other to maximize the room’s profit – economical calculation
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Why commission % increasing won’t protect rooms from withdrawing the funds by winning players
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

B) A list of key factors, which influence on the results of a player in the room (the first half of the message)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

“First registration” and “playing after a break” factor – statistics of different rooms
https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58946...

Single table gaming – withdrawal – a stop of winning
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Regarding the multitabling “factor” (the second part of the message)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Bankroll amount “factor”
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Detailed results of gaming in iPoker (Red Star Poker room) comparing to Pokerstars
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

The room puts everyone on a predetermined profit and strictly controls it
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Chapter IV. Online gaming and strategy

Spoiler
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A) A real profitability of bluffing in professional poker, and how bluffing effects on the hand dealing in online-poker
https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59065...

B) Critical weak sides of online-poker multitabling (the list is in the end of the message)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

How online-pro MT SnG players do play on Pokerstars (incorrect strategy is successfully implemented)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

C) Poor analysis of gaming by online-pro players (the first part of the message)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

A perfect question towards an online-pro player, who tries to accuse you in bad playing (the second part of the message) – “Show me your bluffing efficiency”
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

The way I worked on my gaming (the middle of the message)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Chapter V. Statistical hints for proving rigging in the room

Spoiler
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A) The variance explanation – statistics in a real life
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Explanation of the variance and the distance – they are always together
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Preparation of the information – logic (the end of the message)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

B) Key buble and final/prefinal table all-ins analysis – is a good method of uncovering rigging by the room (in the middle of the message)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

C) Why it is important to see all the starting hands of your opponents to uncover rigging of the game
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Chapter VI. Atmosphere during the discussion of the information regarding rigging in online poker sphere

Spoiler
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A) The reactions of forum members, what is going on forums (aggression towards players, who provide an information regarding fraudulent rooms)
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Correct position towards cheated players
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

B) Types of players presented on the forum and their reactions to the fraud in online-poker sphere
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Multiply lying by an online pro to protect the fraud in online-poker sphere
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Constant tries of the forum members to build a negative image of a person, who reports about law violations by the room
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

An example of ignoring of the topic by active forum member
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Chapter VII. Motivation and psychology

Spoiler
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Why it is important to stop the fraud in online-poker
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

My reasons to refuse playing online and my reasons to come back
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Why do people play a rigged game, why I did play micro stakes
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Hope I can finally come back to a chat now


Do you think a book is showing a picture of a book and a bunch of links to old posts that fit your narrative???
Somebody should have told Dostojevski, he would have had more free time.

But to summarize this "book" when you say "I would like to mention, that the materials are not only based on my personal investigations and statistical calculations, but it is also based on a numerous conversations/discussions of the topic of rigging the game with pro/amateur players on poker tables, forums, chats."

By some major coincidence these people that "have also shared a well-thought ideas/information regarding the current situation in online poker." are exclusively other riggies (amaz, waddy, mrp)
While all the actual pro's are conveniently ignored
Well, this will make for a very unbiased trip to the past 😃
Im sure you will refuse to see what's wrong with this just like you wont acknowledge whats wrong about you lying about your results

In the same manner I have actually proven the earth is actually flat.
For me to accomplish that I have spoken to 3 other guys who are sure the earth the flat.
I presume that is more than enough evidence we ever need guys... we live on a flat earth!!!!

But in all seriousness, instead of copying stuff from the past why do you refuse to finish your investigation?
Your main point as to why pro's win is that they comply with the sites hidden rules...
You have 0,0000000% where you actually comply with the rules and make a pro's salary out of poker. According to you it should be that easy.
Neither have any of your allies.
And its a very vital part (the most important part) of the entire thesis... yet its nowhere to be found
How do you think you have proven how "cover almost all the possible questions - how does the sphere work?" when this is missing?
No proper analyst would approve any of this.

I was inspired though and I didnt know it was that easy to write a book
So I made a short comic book about our antihero Johnmir


What really missing here in a stream of you trying to prove your thesis but getting everything wrong and very frustrated in the process 😃
But of course you deleted that. Just like a trustworthy person would 🙂


Slugant you are so fake and obvious haha... those stats are when i was on global GG years ago and messing around and didnt know what i was doing. I then got way better and GG moved to Ontario only... Where i turned a 50 dollar deposit into 20 k in a year through 2300 tourneys and had an ability of 96/97 on sharkscope


Also, i didnt even write that comment above! How the fook can "Mike Haven" edit my comment and completely change my words around?? wtf is going here haha


Slugant is mentally handicapped lmao... GG has been caught allowing superusers and very obvious collusion and they have PVI (player value index) which handicaps good players and helps out the fish and you still defend GG all day...while saying you dont even play on it?

You are a joke Slugant and an obvious shill and this is the last time im responding to a fake who says he doesnt play on GG yet defends them all day on the internet as if they are his mother hahahahahahaha doesnt make any sense ya goof you are too obvious


Slugant is so desperate he searched up my old stats from a very small sample size when i was messing around but doesnt post my real stats after that where im up 20K while winning 32% of 45-55% all in situations (flips)... Not only am i good i am very good haha. Do you even play poker? how are you on this forum all day? and why?

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