The "LOLCANADA" thread...again

Yes I threw physicists in there intentionally because it was a math related job to give an example in your favor.

Poker it is a poker forum Afterall. I've also done some trading and e commerce nothing of which I learned in college so I might be biased
Obviously poker is like grade 8 math max. I remember in school I had a high aptitude for math up to grade 9 when it became all algebra then I pretty much checked out and had no idea what was going on but I was always the best in my classes for the simple forms of math ran loops around the class in multiplication and long division type things.

Im not against a higher form of learning or anything I just think too many people take it and we would be better off if our employers did more on the job training because college is horribly inefficient and expensive

Strange thing is if it wasn't for his faith you probably would have never heard of him.

I only remembered seeing him debating a kid on college. I rewatched it the other day its his 7th most viewed youtube video if your curious. I have yet to really hear him talk about religion so he's giving good vibes. But I'm just a giga non believer but smart people believe in dumb things all the time. I just can't get behind religion its just nonsensical. I went to catholic school and stopped believing at age 7 its so silly. How can all 10 million religions be right? thats what math class taught me! I bet the catholic schools are pissed they had to let that one in the curriculum.

Google told me he was popular before he turned religious and was secular in 2020 not sure how true it is

"Prior to the early 2020s, Kirk was described as secular and a critic of religious influence on politics and the state. Later he became a Christian nationalist."

I've been following Charlie Kirk for over a decade, he's talked about deciding to commit his life to Jesus when he was in grade 5 many times.

Ya im sure he's always been religious but I have read a lot about him being pro secular before 2020 which is the principle of separating religion from state institutions and public life.
But he clearly changed and became a full on Christian nationalist at some point. I have nothing against a persons belief in religion. But when everything is about and related to religion I get very annoyed.

"Secularism is the principle of seeking to conduct human affairs based on naturalistic considerations, uninvolved with religion."

I think the scam is more of we lets kids to take out student loans of large $$$ and more in the USA for degrees that are not in the realm of doctors, lawyers, education

I saw some folks with $100,000 s at rates that are criminal but will not loan a 20 year old $20,000 to start a business

Ok. Well I agree, you definitely don't need a math degree to do either poker or trading. I'm not quite sure why you think it is a scam then. For instance, the most common student of mine are engineering students. Well, math is pretty important baseline skill for engineering. Sure there are some asterisks in that we don't 100% know how things are going to evolve over time with AI, but as of today I think that remains true.

Well, I agree, I don't think the only way to be successful is to get a college degree. I wouldn't say that. I suspect most people wouldn't say that. One might point out that, for instance, college educated people on average make more money than non-college educated people, but those are just averages. Probably a more nuanced critique would not be that parents and guidance counsellors and teachers etc are imply college is the ONLY way to be successful, more that they are overvaluing how useless it can be for careers. That's more debatable. But if that's the debate you re having, then I don't think "scam" is the right word here.

I agree with shifty .
Which makes sense since he quote someone else….

In many educational field in the US, paying the equivalence of a house to get an education sounds pretty “scammy” to me .

Especially when education is mostly about qualifying for jobs and not necessarily to have an insurance of having a high wage .

Something beneficial can surely be a waste if the prices is too high .

I'm 100% on board of the "education is too expensive" bandwagon. Canada (and absolutely the US which is worse) should have higher level of public funding for university. Not free, imo, but cheaper.

But that said I think the disciplines where you are paying the price of a house in the US are primarily things like doctors where you will make the price of a house per year in the future. That's perhaps silly but maybe a different issue.

That's pointless though, Are they all making money with what they have a degree in? No doubt smarter people go to college and make more money but that doesn't mean going to college makes you smart or more money. The scam part comes from people being told if you go to college you'll make more than someone who doesn't even if you take out huge loans. College is Scam was a slogan Charlie used to start the debate, it wasn't saying anyone who goes to college is getting scammed.

the bold should be obvious to anyone with any trained statistical intuition but... sadly almost no one has well tuned statistical intuitions.

it isn't necessarily a scam but you can't gauge the college income benefits only by looking at people who went to college vs people who didn't. that's the mother of all selection biases

I mean I was pretty explicit to say that this is just averages and as such no, I (fairly obviously) don't think if you go to college you'll definitely make more money than someone who doesn't. If it was represented that way, I'd agree the person saying that was being an idiot, but I don't think that is a common thing to say and don't think it makes college a scam. I also rather doubt that you can explain the variance the income levels entirely by "smartness" separate from education.

Yup that is the elitism lefty kinda bull$h!t that I heard often and that pisses me off .

I have a degree but I make less then someone working in a lower educational jobs, it’s unfair smh .
Yeah , go learn demand and supply law instead to think that because you went to school 3 years more in your early 20s u deserve a higher pay for the rest of your life ….

Not mentioning they often add stupid educational requisitions when in the end it isn’t even needed .

The late 1990s during the internet boom was a clear example of this .

Then why mention it? I'm not sure what you are arguing. Do they actually come out and say that, who knows but probably. Do majority of people in those positions believe a student that has eligible grades should go to college regardless of the degree over entering a trade or doing something else? How many kids just go to college because they are told it's what your supposed to do.

I feel like most people I know as an advisor (which is part of my role) would never suggest someone "should" go to college or "should" enter a trade. These discussions are very much centered on personal choice and finding the right fit for any given student. Finding a degree that makes sense for the student, or no degree at all, doesn't have any of this normative "should" language you are suggesting. I don't think this is particularly controversial.

Higher earning potential is absolutely a reason people do go to college though, and a reasonable one as there are many paths into higher paying careers that go through college. That isn't suggest it is the ONLY such path or that it always works or any of the other more extreme claims you've suggest people are saying.

You're playing semantics. Obviously they don't say the actual word should. But kids are certainly pushed in that direction their entire lives by teachers, counselors and many parents. Anything besides college is typically viewed as less valuable, 20 years ago when I was going through the consensus was to just get college degree in anything, that employers liked seeing it on a resume.

I never said there wasn't. I said that what kids are being told, they aren't told you can get a trade, start a business, become a VP of a company, project management, etc. by going the trade route.

and even the people who pay only 40% get a job in the field or something insane around that amount I think I heard 60% in the us which is probably higher then canada

Ok. I keep reading your posts to find this evidence that university is a scam. It seems like what you have settled on is that some unknown people apparently don't even mention there are other viable possibilities. In sone sense, we don't disagree too much. I also think any guidance counsellor or whatever should make it clear university isn't the only option - and I rather suspect they do precisely this most of the time!

I watched a few of his posts on College is a Scam. I neve knew he wrote a book titled that either. It seems he is alluding to the promise or implied promise that if you go to University and get a degree you will get a great job that pays well. He acknowledges that there are fields that require a university degree and pay well. I thin k he gave that a% of 25 % of degrees. The rest are the ones he feels are a scam he also cites many large corporations that have abandoned their requirements for a college degree .
I am not sure if teachers in the USA need an education degree but here in Canada it leads to a good paying job not sure that applies to the USA

Even if I buy 100% into the framing of your post and the statistics within it - I still don't remotely get close to "scam". And I don't buy into your framing - I don't think anyone normal is giving any form of promise that every degree from a university is going to lead to a great, high-paying job.

You would be surprised …

Simply because general population have a false basis on economics and how prices work .

I am not saying I think college is a scam I am trying to explain his reasons . Let’s be honest large percentage of degrees do not lead to a high paying job or a job you require a degree for

What evidence have you posted that it isn't? Of course other possibilities are mentioned, but can you agree that in academics and society the expectation is for kids that have eligible grades should go to college?