In other news

That you didn't allow me to consider the rwandan son of rwandans as an alien, an immigrant, a foreigner, "not one of the people" when discussing crime.

That's how this conversation started. With me claiming an immgrant assassinated little girls recently and you claiming he wasn't an immigrant.

And if data clearly told us that even for second generations, some countries of origin are very good and other suck horrendously, would that make you accept that we should either stop taking people in from the sucker countries, or apply much higher quality filters at the very least for people coming from those countries?

Youre never going to shift the dictionary definition of an immigrant to where you want it to be.

a person who has come to a different country in order to live there permanently:

That's 80% of his shtick.

npr did a montage yesterday of some of the vilest things charlie kirk ever said

big time yikes, just wow - hard to imagine anyone hearing that stuff and thinking "i want to hear more of what he has to say"

however, i do also think it's the side effect of when you have hundreds of hours of someone without any education who is trying to get clicks and views will say

however, nowhere did it include any of the pro slavery nonsense nor white supremacist stuff people have been saying about him in the thread

and interestingly, probably due to him trending so hard & a combination of me googling his name etc but he's showing up in my youtube shorts a lot now and he seems to mostly just be calling out hypocrisy of college students - which feels right in the sense of "oh yeah this makes sense how he gained such a following"

Funny thing is if I was to immigrate in X country and my kids were born and grew up in it , I would 100% consider them from the X country (with my country ascendancy if you will).

oh you could, try to see if you go to china and have kids there and they are white/european looking, if the other people there consider them chinese at 18

I told you about Sinner very clearly. It's all about grandparents. And i told you about actual british paki/indi/bangl.. If your grandparents were born there that's your place. It's not a racial thing.

Dunno btw why you don't think a significant number of actual italians have celtic/gerrman blood , we had normans in sicily, and celts in the north (then longobards, austrians and so on) 1k+ years ago. My city name (Bologna) comes from a Gaul name ("galli Boi").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boii

Jacobs isn't half-italian because he is half-black. He is half italian because his father was an american soldier. He would be half italian even if the father was an american white soldier of italian heritage lol.

Ron de Santis isn't italian, even if he is more "genetically italian" than Sinner (in your limited view of italians not having celtic/german blood). Ron de santis has 8/8 italian great-grandparents, but 4/4 american grandparents. Ron de Santis is the example of who *after the proper amount of time* becomes an actual native of a place even if his ancestors come from another place.

Back to China, *everywhere in china* weez children wouldn't be considered chinese by the people around him, even if they spoke perfect chinese at 18. Many such cases actually, of westerners having kids there, the kids speaking chinese perfectly, never to be considered actually chinese.

Remember that Italy is barely even a country and they only started speaking Italian very recently.

we started speaking the same language very recently yes, but what we now call Italian was spoken 500+ years ago in Tuscany basically.

an Italian today can understand Dante (far) better than an English speaker can read the Beowulf (which is admittedly older).

Italy isn't a real country yet but at least we dealt with 2 world wars and a few other national problems as the same country as we are today (more or less), that starts to build some unity of intent.

but of course it will be centuries before we are a real country

No argument from me on that. I'm just saying that any sort of Italian national identity including which includes a national language is a very modern creation.

English has changed a lot because it's about 40% Norman French today

And tbf other national Romance languages like Spanish and French (not so sure about Portuguese or Romanian) underwent similar processes whereby regional dialects became the national language-- it just happened a lot later with Italian.

massimo D'Azeglio was one of the men who worked for "a single Italy" in the 19th century (our city named a very prominent street in the center after him).

in 1861 after we united Italy (Rome had to wait until 1870, and some borders changed after we won WW1) he famously said "we have done Italy now we must do Italians" (fatta l' Italia ora vanno fatti gli italiani).

it was easier to speak french for the elites of the north when they met the southerners than "Italian".

various "liberal" governments tried and fail to unify language after unity, dialect was still predominant when Mussolini rose to power, he used a lot of violence to unify the language (including mistreating linguistic minorities like the aforementioned German speakers in the north) , he actually failed, and only television managed to fix that.

we have newscasts from the 50s in black and white that routinely needed subtitles for viewers because of dialectof the interviewed people, and not only in rural settings (that's only 70 years ago).

the mafia trials in the early 90s were broadcasted with subtitles as well when witnesses from lower education classes had to talk

Portuguese had kind the opposite route, very top-down, the lusophone speakers were uber-reactionary and actually kept the language almost identical (in written forms) even in colonies still to this day.

it helped that being developed in a remote corner with fewer intrusions than most other areas it changed less.

Portuguese is just "older" than other romance languages, closer to Latin, like central Italy dialects are

I’d be curious what these vile things are that he said ?

European and Brazilian Portuguese have diverged a lot phonetically and EP is going to be practically unintelligible to the untrained ear of a Brazilian.

I remember watching a Portuguese show while in Brazil that had a Brazilian actress in it and they would subtitle the Portuguese speakers.

Brazilian guy I know once told me that he'd rather speak Spanish to Spanish speakers than Portuguese to Portuguese.

ye I said written form for a reason.

as an Italian that learnt Portuguese but never Spanish (when I speak with spanish speakers they say I speak portunhol) , for me the Portuguese in Lisboa basically speak Brasilian with a potato in their mouth, in Porto with a potato and a rag above it.

but Portuguese on Portugal has basically a latin/Italian pronunciation, the letters are as written (for an Italian).

like predio in Portugal Is how an Italian reading the word for the first time would say it.

in Brazil it's prejo

When you do hear them--remember some powerful pols are trying to have him viewed at the Capitol like a hero and are calling him one of greatest of the last ~100yrs of political discourse lol

don't recall offhand to be honest because it was just a rapid fire of things he said while i was driving through traffic but it was extremely cringe and ignorant

i think individually it would have served as a hot take but as a group it was "woah what is wrong with that guy"

tried looking it up but couldn't find it - asked ai to list the worst things he said and none of those sounded like it

but it was some real woah things like "educating women will destroy society" type of stuff

Kirk was the kind of person that on purpose attacks claims even if strongly worded by repeating them verbatim then dissecting them, or makes strong claims then defends them with a very nuanced set of takes afterwards (I can relate, it's my style as well).

so basically he was a prime target for selected enraging, you can cut him after he said something "monstrous" an instant before he clarifies why that is NOT a good claim... we saw the obscene takes (that had to be recanted even by people as protected as Stephen king) about "stoning gay people to death". some media had to recant antisemitic claims, because Kirk actually exposed the claims by other to *criticize them*.

and so on

i would be highly surprised if npr were to intentionally misconstrue his statements like that

i wouldn't put them past letting their own biases influence topics of coverage and the overall slant of discussion

ie they find the outliers most sympathetic to the editorial teams viewpoints

but it would truly be shocking for them to portray him retelling bad things others said as if they were his own thoughts - i refuse to believe they would do that

you would be surprised if one of the most vile media sources in the USA, most rabidly leftist sources, that went to a great deal to push all the most monstrous takes of the most indefensible radical leftists, spent time to character assassinate a right-wing victim of assassination?

npr is the Candace Owen and Fuentes of the left in organization form. truly disgusting people with absolutely 0 integrity

you're absolutely wrong about that

Pretty absurd take dude. They're about as tame as it gets. I've heard more than enough of CO and NF to compare. They had one of CK's buds on the other day and the dude clearly came on to start ****.