Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
So now that Hamas has reiterated it will not disarm and will not disband, and there is no negotiations to return hostages and end the war; where does that leave all the nations that are demanding an end to the war and return of hostages, and pledging support of a Palestinian state with a disarmed and disbanded Hamas. Obviously these are the same people that are arming and supp
Netanyahu's plan is to finish the cleansing.
Hamas's plan is to last as long as possible and goad Israel into a more isolated position.
The plan of the nations demanding to end the war, knowing that the Gazan militants are really tough and that it will take far more extreme measures to get rid of them, is to get on the right side of history in time.
It's true that Hamas' original charter was antisemitic – but revolutionary movements evolve. Just as Zionism had terrorist elements – Shamir and Begin became prime ministers – and as happened in Ireland and South Africa, so too with Hamas. . . . Today, Hamas says its issue isn't with Jews – it's with Israel and Zionism. Hamas has already become more moderate and would agree to a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, with East Jerusalem as its capital.
Shlaim grew up in Iraq and spoke Hebrew haltingly:
Mizrahi Jews could have been a bridge between Israel and the Arab world, but Zionist leaders never wanted that bridge. Herzl imagined the Jewish state in contrast to Eastern barbarism. Jabotinsky saw the state as part of imperialism in the Middle East. The same applies to Ben-Gurion and Netanyahu, who embody alienation and a refusal to be part of the region – and a lack of interest in coexistence."
Regarding the bombing of Doha:
Since Greek and Roman times, it has been a convention that you do not harm emissaries of the other side who are negotiating a ceasefire or a truce. You allow the diplomats to do their job. This is how wars end. Israel is the only country I know that tries to assassinate the people it is supposed to be negotiating with.
Israel does not like moderate Palestinians – it sees them as a threat. It undermines them and paves the way for more extreme figures. That's why leadership has shifted from Hamas' political wing to its military wing.
https://x.com/sahouraxo/status/197156645...
Interesting.
I bet Dunyain will try and convince us they're all antisemitic right? Room full of Jew haters walked out because the speaker was a Jew. Something along those lines?
https://x.com/sahouraxo/status/197156645...
Interesting.
I bet Dunyain will try and convince us they're all antisemitic right? Room full of Jew haters walked out because the speaker was a Jew. Something along those lines?
lol this guy has 2.6m follows
https://x.com/sahouraxo/status/197156645...
Interesting.
I bet Dunyain will try and convince us they're all antisemitic right? Room full of Jew haters walked out because the speaker was a Jew. Something along those lines?
The rest of the world has been putting Jews in their place for 2000 years. The latter half of the 20th century when they were accepted (in the west at least) was the exception.
This is just back to business as usual for the world. What is old is new again.
There is no first principles involved. If it was Putin, the Iranian president or Kim most of those people would politely sit while they spoke. And many would give a standing ovation at the end.
As I said, the UN and world order is a complete farce devoid of any first principles. And no one should look to the UN for any moral guidance.
Most of these people are just there to do some shopping in NYC and some paid sex and drugs on the side.
The only question is whether it has some value as a vehicle for communications that justifies its existence.
thats not remotely true Dun.
Court Jews in Europe and the MENA stayed in their lane.
Once Israel is dismantled, Jewish power is taken away, and Jews have been sufficiently punished for getting so uppity, I am sure the nations of the world will mostly accept there will be a place for them on the margins where they belong.
Court Jews in Europe and the MENA stayed in their lane.
Once Israel is dismantled, Jewish power is taken away, and Jews have been sufficiently punished for getting so uppity, I am sure the nations of the world will mostly accept there will be a place for them on the margins where they belong.
Court Jews were fully accepted by the Western ruling class. just like Israel is fully accepted by the Western ruling class. in both cases, their acceptance was due to their usefulness. at some point Israel may not be worth the squeeze. remember that Israel produces nothing of value except genocide. but genocide is very useful and profitable for the European Supremacists.
Court Jews in Europe and the MENA stayed in their lane. Once Israel is dismantled, Jewish power is taken away, and Jews have been sufficiently punished for getting so uppity, I am sure the nations of the world will mostly accept there will be a place for them on the margins where they belong.
Court Jews were fully accepted by the Western ruling class. just like Israel is fully
Well, at least the Israelis produce something, unlike the Palestinians, who are too whiny for even slave labor, which is why the Saudis point blank refuse to take in a single one of them.
Bro is complaining that the Palestinians won't submit to slavery and prefer to fight it.
There is no first principles involved. If it was Putin, the Iranian president or Kim most of those people would politely sit while they spoke. And many would give a standing ovation at the end.As I said, the UN and world order is a complete farce devoid of any first principles. And no one should look to the UN for any moral guidance. Most of these people are just there to d
What ever makes you sleep at night buddy. In the end that’s all you can really, convince yourself that EVERYONE else is wrong.
It's seems very likely that all the damage netanyahu & co have done to israel will be blamed on everyone else.
There will be a seamless movement from 'he is not damaging israel, it's going brilliantly' to 'all the damage wasn't down to him'
Netanyahu's plan is to finish the cleansing.
Hamas's plan is to last as long as possible and goad Israel into a more isolated position.
The plan of the nations demanding to end the war, knowing that the Gazan militants are really tough and that it will take far more extreme measures to get rid of them, is to get on the right side of history in time.
But if they aren't going to let Israel finish the job, and they are going to keep supporting and supplying Hamas, in action if not in words, than the right side of history is Hamas.
In which case, what is the point of declaring support for a post Hamas Palestinian state. They are obviously going to have to walk back the post Hamas part, so why bother in making such a statement.
Hamas has demonstrated they are quite willing to fight until the last Palestinian is dead. And the rest of the world has demonstrated they will keep supplying them indefinitely, so why bother even pretending there is going to be a post Hamas Palestinian state.
If anything it just gives Israel an excuse to not allow a state. It can just state Hamas is still there, so no state. Israel isn't even really incentivized to fully remove Hamas the way the rest of the world is acting.
Failed?
Spoiler
Court Jews were tolerated at the best and were frequently persecuted, executed, and/or scapegoated for whatever the nobles felt like. In some cases, the nobles just decided it was easier to execute the Jews than to pay the Jews for the moneyz owed.
Calling the Court Jews "fully accepted" by "Western ruling class" shows ignorance, not knowledge.
you dont think something similar is likely to play out for the Israeli Jews? the far right Tucker wing is already blaming them for the ills of the USA. and the far left human rights advocates may well be indifferent when the Empire jettisons them bc no one will forget all of the children the IDF gleefully slaughtered. ofc, it was all at the behest of the US Empire but that wont matter.
When does the flotila arrive? I dont think they will be let through sadly. Chatgpt, which isnt the best but I think it is very good at scouring the internet news, says it could be next week but unsure
Hardly likely to happen at the hands of outsiders, though the state's own internal stresses and military overreach may complicate its long-term survival prospects. Twenty per cent of Israelis are Arabs and, what with the racist and sectarian 2018 Basic Law and the increasing stranglehold of the racist Jewish far-right on government, they may not stay quiet indefinitely.
And once the "international community" starts excluding Israel from the sort of genocide-washing sporting and entertainment events it's enjoyed participating in for a long time the penny may eventually drop on enough of its deplorable citizens that their model of a society is in fact completely toxic, much as happened with South Africa.
It looks like they will be removed from Euro soccer. not because the corrupt UEFA and FIFA leaders have a shred of humanity, but bc they know that the protests that disrupted almost all of the Vuelta stages will look like childs play if the Israeli genociders show up.
Court Jews were tolerated at the best and were frequently persecuted, executed, and/or scapegoated for whatever the nobles felt like. In some cases, the nobles just decided it was easier to execute the Jews than to pay the Jews for the moneyz owed.
Calling the Court Jews "fully accepted" by "Western ruling class" shows ignorance, not knowledge.
It’s incredibly ignorant to suggest that the existence of “court Jews” proves that Jews were fully accepted throughout Europe. Jews were forced into banking largely because they were forbidden from taking up any other professions. Per usual, Victor’s post is tantamount to a steaming pile of dog poop. It must be difficult to be so uninformed but he’s the best.
ya dude, Jews were "forced" to be some of the richest and most influential people in Europe.
as usual, this shows your Jewish Supremacism and Philo-semitism. guess who else could be killed and imprisoned and robbed at any time that the sovereign wanted? just about every single other person in Europe at the time, including many nobles. the fact is that Jews were allowed to hold immense wealth and power. ofc this isnt enough for people like you who are so indoctrinated that you believe they should have been kings.
